What's your normal listening volume

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by McIntosh, Sep 6, 2007.

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  1. Fedot L

    Fedot L Forum Resident

    Of course you do.
    By effect of subjective loss of low frequencies (from 20 to approx. 500-700 Hz) while listening at levels lower than the “original” sound pressure levels of the same sound source heard “natural”.
    And subjective excess of low frequencies while listening at levels higher than the “original” sound pressure levels of the same sound source heard ‘natural’, on the other hand.
    The bigger the “natural” and the “electro-acoustical” sound pressure levels difference, the deeper the effect. The subjective loss or excess of low frequencies is, in itself, an objective property of human hearing.
    The effect described by the “equal-loudness contours'', if you are curious to see the latest version of (and the history of versions):
    http://www.lindos.co.uk/cgi-bin/FlexiData.cgi?SOURCE=Articles&VIEW=full&id=17
    The means to compensate the effect, whenever wished, are the well-known “loudness” devices, but not to forget that millions of “loudness” buttons of millions of “popular” preamps “prevent” their owners from adjusting to the real difference of the SP levels mentioned above, even being designed for only ONE “side” of the compensation, i.e. for listening levels LOWER than “natural”, their “loudness curves” being rigidly attached to “volume” knob’s positions producing absolutely unpredictable SP levels of any sound source listened, except for rare cases of coincidence. The other “side” of the compensation, i.e. for listening levels HIGHER than “natural”, does not exist at all in “popular” equipment.
     
  2. ATSMUSIC

    ATSMUSIC Forum Resident

    Location:
    MD, USA
    I listen way too loud usually. I just love loud music, what can I say. :)
     
    The Pinhead likes this.
  3. Metoo

    Metoo Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Spain (EU)
    Thanks Fedot for pointing this out. I am aware of the corrections. Sorry, I tend to gravitate to the pioneers' names just because it is - for me - easier to remember than the ISO number 226. So, you could say that it's due to some laziness on my part, but the main point remains. :)
     
  4. winged creature

    winged creature Forum Resident

    Location:
    Canada
    around 80db for me
     
  5. monewe

    monewe Forum Resident

    Location:
    SCOTLAND
    Probably about the same.
     
  6. Fedot L

    Fedot L Forum Resident

    Thanks for your answer.
    Never with an idea to make you sorry! But with the only wish of exchanging better ideas for all of us.
     
  7. ROLO46

    ROLO46 Forum Resident

    My big Meridian D6000 speakers have dsp processing for uniform results at all levels.

    This is much more subtle than 'loudness'

    And enables night listening @ 50db

    I prefer daytime listening @ 85db or about

    The mastering process of various tracks makes their levels all over the place!

    Hi levels, 95dbs + can cause rooms and furniture to resonate.

    85 dbs is safe for 3hrs a day average.

    I'm not keen on normalisation of levels

    Roger IMHO
     
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  8. Fedot L

    Fedot L Forum Resident

    Reading the user manual of your D6000 didn’t give me an idea of what is “subtle than 'loudness'” there for managing tonal balance while listening at SP levels other than “natural”, whenever wished.
    Always by that “loudness” for managing tonal balance while listening at SP levels LOWER than “natural”.
    And by the “bass control” for managing tonal balance while listening at SP levels HIGHER than “natural”.
    What is “mastering process of various tracks” there? And what is “making tracks levels all over the place” there?
    What do you mean by “normalization of levels”?
     
  9. OldJohnRobertson

    OldJohnRobertson Martyr for Even Less

    Location:
    Fuquay-Varina, NC
    On my system it depends on format. Normal listening for CDs is what my receiver calls -35 dB (if it's a loud CD, it'll be a bit lower, about -40 dB). For vinyl, I have to bump the volume up to about -22 dB to get the same level.
     
  10. I normally listen at an average spl of 80 dB. Keep in mind that I am 65 years old and my hearing is not what it used to be.

    However, when my son, who is in his early 40's, listens to my system, he does not find the 80 dB level to be too loud!

    I find that I am not able to experience the full dynamic range of most recordings at levels too much below 80 dB. In my opinion, the 80 dB level is very close to what I experience when I attend a live jazz performance in a small to medium sized club.

    I live in the country on a 5 acre parcel, so I do not have to worry about aggravating the neighbors.

    HG :cool:
     
  11. ROLO46

    ROLO46 Forum Resident


    Sorry we seem separated by language

    The original D6000 had switchable 'loudness'

    This enhanced top and bottom end at lower listening levels

    The later DSP 6000 has pyscho acoustic compensation in the digital domain

    This is more subtle than mere loudness and works quite seemlessly

    Bob Stuart says they work at any acoustic level.

    The mastering process that makes levels "all over the place " is the CD finalising process which varies from cd to cd.

    Normalisation is crude level manipulation which brings every thing up to 0db

    And crushes harmonics.

    Hope this helps...

    Roger IMHO
     
  12. Fedot L

    Fedot L Forum Resident

    If you could only appreciate the language of some Occidentals posting in forums in MY language!! The fact that does not “prevent” people from asking for more accurate definitions and arguing in essence…
    The “Meridian D6000” user manual found in the Net
    http://www.meridian-audio.com/handbooks/d6kuser.pdf
    its “loudness” curves diagram shows that the “top end” of frequency range was not affected.
    Sorry, the DSP 6000 user manual same as for D6000, I’ve not found it in the Internet.
    The only thing I’ve found:
    http://www.meridian-audio.com/data/6000.pdf
    has nothing but publicity slogans in the domain.
    Ah yes! The famous computer editing tool, that, exactly in the “equal loudness compensation” domain, makes all kinds of automatic “DSP psycho acoustic compensation of loudness” senseless.
    For, returning to the sense of the “loudness compensation”, it’s the technical tool to compensate the effect of subjective loss of low frequencies (from 20 to approx. 500-700 Hz) while listening at levels lower than the “original” sound pressure levels of the same sound source heard “natural”. And on the other hand, to compensate the effect of subjective excess of low frequencies while listening at levels higher than the “original” sound pressure levels of the same sound source heard ‘natural’.
    The bigger the “natural” and the “electro-acoustical” sound pressure levels difference, the deeper the effect. The subjective loss or excess of low frequencies which is, in itself, an objective property of human hearing.
    The effect described by the “equal-loudness contours'', if you are curious to see the latest version of (and the history of versions):
    http://www.lindos.co.uk/cgi-bin/Flex...W=full& id=17
    The means to compensate the effect, whenever wished, are the well-known “loudness” devices, but not to forget that millions of “loudness” buttons of millions of “popular” preamps “prevent” their owners from adjusting to the real difference of the SP levels mentioned above, even being designed for only ONE “side” of the compensation, i.e. for listening levels LOWER than “natural”, their “loudness curves” being rigidly attached to “volume” knob’s positions producing absolutely unpredictable SP levels of any sound source listened, except for rare cases of coincidence. The other “side” of the compensation, i.e. for listening levels HIGHER than “natural”, does not exist at all in “popular” equipment.
    How could a “DSP” know what to do with the sound of a flute accompanied by an acoustic guitar presented in its circuits at “0 dB normalized”, listened by the owner at their “natural” 60 dB SPL and therefore, needing, as such, NO “loudness compensation”?
    Unlike the sound of a symphony orchestra forte (“natural” at approx. 100 dBA) presented in his circuits at “0 dB normalized” too, listened by the owner at 70 dB SPL and needing (whenever wished), as such, a profound “loudness compensation”.
    And what’s more, what should be its “means” to know that a woman's low voice, normalized, as before, in its circuits to “0 dB”, but listened forcedly (for example, by a high level of noise in the listening place) at a SPL much HIGNER than “natural”, needs a “reverse” “loudness compensation” by DECREASING of bass? If it even had such a means…
    And in yours, what is the solution?
    Very interesting. In what way?
    For the time being, no. Sincerely IMHO.
     
  13. JA Fant

    JA Fant Well-Known Member

    On a volume of 0-10, at least 5-6 daily.
     
  14. quicksilverbudie

    quicksilverbudie quicksilverbudie

    Location:
    Ontario
    3 clicks from zero, kinda low but I listen late at night....more power in the house means less volume...plus my ears get use to it.

    sean
     
  15. doubtingthomas

    doubtingthomas Member

    Location:
    lincoln,ma
    gary the gorts description of his wife walking in the room and he could see her lips moving but not hear her really gave me a laugh-my wife and I have put a four beat rest in when she comes in the room to give me time to scramble for the volume control!
    using a meter a usually listen in the mid 80's- coltrane or other serious listening usually pushes me into the nineties
    hegeman description of looking for a level that replicates a live jazz club level of volume really resonated with me-I like to get the volume around where it might be if I were hearing a live performance-obviously a varaiable number
     
  16. ROLO46

    ROLO46 Forum Resident

    Fedot, greetings from the west

    Its time for another Sputnik......

    Dolby Labs consider 85db to be nominal listening level

    I am not sure what Meridian consider nominal level but the DSP 6000 does
    work @ 50 db late night and 85 db day time.

    Both are detailed and enjoyable

    This is a domestic enviroment, I'm not mastering or dubbing.

    As for hi levels in the digital domain who needs them ?

    There a huge dynamic to place them in , even with a humble CD

    Roger IMHO
     
  17. Fedot L

    Fedot L Forum Resident

    Thanks.
    Even for sound sources whose “natural” SP levels are about 60-75 dB? Curious for what reason?
    Congratulations!
    It’s not a CD or another digital sound source that limit(s) the dynamic range to realize, but the noise level at the listening place (rarely lower than 35 dB) and the listening level preferred.

    Greetings from the East.
     
  18. ROLO46

    ROLO46 Forum Resident

    Fedot

    Broadcasting/Recording is all about level manipulation

    This gets distorted with close up sounds and with dynamic constraints

    It is not possible to know the enviroment of the listener

    Dolby say 85db for the cinema

    The home may be in the 60's

    Thats why we have level controls

    But we don't need to crush the signal on the roof of the system to make it work.

    Roger IMHO
     
  19. Fedot L

    Fedot L Forum Resident

    Really?
    In my youth I spent several years at radio studios. And I’ve heard about.
    Nothing gets distorted with well adjusted mixer console’s attenuators' positions.
    It is.
    But traditionally the dynamic range of programs is limited by technical quality standards, and not by uncertain environment of the listener.
    One of reasonable levels. To choose by listener.
    May be.
    And if we haven’t a well adjusted sound compressor in circuit, we often have to manipulate them with very large dynamic range programs.
    Not clear what you mean by this. If it’s limiting, we do. And sometimes increasing again. Taken together called rather manual compression. Isn’t it?
     
  20. Blencathra

    Blencathra New Member

    Location:
    UK
     
  21. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Location:
    Hollywood, USA
    SMPTE and the CAS (Cinema Audio Society) generally tell mixers to work at 85dB = reference level (typically -20dBfs), but some TV mixers and mastering engineers choose to work at a slightly lower level, around 82dB. That's what I use.

    The set up on how to get your system at a specific reference level is detailed all over the net. My buddy Dr. Sound (aka Marti Humphrey) over on the Digidesign User Conference has a permanent thread on the subject, which is detailed here.
     
  22. Max Stolyar

    Max Stolyar New Member

    Location:
    Ukraine
    As is better to listen music, when nobody runs and not yell in an apartment, I like to listen music at night. Few extraneous noise in the street and in the house. Therefore at 20 Db, details are clearly audible all, and music practically is not audible in a children's room. Thus even light does not distract from listening. Once I so was listened to the end up to the real hallucinations, listening Animals Pink Floyd. Without everyone chemical:))
     
  23. ROLO46

    ROLO46 Forum Resident

    Fedot life is too short to agonise about normal listening levels in the home.

    The miracle of the internet penetrating the world of many cultures and languages only shows its inadequacies of communication

    85 dbs is good for Ray Dolby and its good for me too.

    Roger IMHO
     
  24. Fedot L

    Fedot L Forum Resident

    You are extraordinarily right! Because
    because you didn’t even notice that so-called “normal listening levels in the home” were the least of all the matters of my interest!
    And language seems the most “weighty” argument you began to oppose to mine, and you finish with… And “culture” too?..
    Greetings from a foreign language speaker.
     
  25. Gary Freed

    Gary Freed Forum Resident

    I never took a reading however I like my music cranked up most of the time.
    It's always a shock especially when I hop back in the car and turn the key.
    What I was listening to previously comes out of the speakers like a bull horn.
     
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