Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Ricky Lampoon, Oct 10, 2021.
Same deal with the Shins, whose material is mostly written and recorded by frontman James Mercer.
As soon as they distinguish themselves. Take Yes for example. They’ve had tons of “new guys” across their lineups, many of whom never really got past that status for one reason or another. Steve Howe and Rick Wakeman on the other hand seem to have graduated to “key member” pretty much instantly.
He was not in the band at all when they did The Final Cut & rejoined as a full member after the lawsuits and settlement.
I first saw the band in 1979 , Raven tour , so it isn't like I came onto the scene late , but , personally , after 10 in particular I think that version of the band had become stale , I didn't like 10 much and at Ally Pally gig they did seem to be going through the motions from what I saw......it was the first time I was ever disappointed by the band live .I had never questioned an album release until 10 , even though I wasn't keen on Aural Sculpture . The band seemed to be trying to get into the US market by all accounts at this stage and 10 was made with that in mind , mainly that was what Hugh Cornwell wanted but maybe not so much JJ Burnel . This is why I wasn't too upset when Hugh left , Paul Roberts and John Ellis came in and the band went back to a more rock sounding outfit , which I did prefer but I know I may be among a small minority that didn't miss Hugh ........though all that said a lot of fans rate his solo material since more than the band's material . It's a shame that a lot never really accepted the two replacements as part of the band .
I don’t have a definitive answer of what a ‘real’ member is. It’s your decision as a music fan to define the term.
I realise it’s a bit of a vague question and it needs to be answered case-by-case.
To me, the new member should contribute something different to the band, and not just copy the parts of the previous member. But, inevitably who the band leaders decide to admit into a band and what the fans think, is going to be different.
The simplest (and most likely) explanation is that they didn’t want to split profits five ways instead of four to someone who wasn’t around when they were most popular.
Also, they probably didn’t want an American member.
As an aside, I’ve noticed that bands I listen to a lot seem less inclined to bring in new blood to the band. If a lineup changes now, it’s more likely that the lineup reconfigures how it plays, or the ex-member’s slot will be taken by a session player rather than a full member.
Van Hagar? I have them listed as “Van Halen (feat. Sammy Hagar) in my iTunes so as to not get them mixed up. Don’t even have the third guy in my collection. They are all different bands to me.
Matt Cameron as drummer of Pearl Jam? Maybe he’s been with them the longest but I still consider Dave Abbruzzese as the Pearl Jam drummer, even though he was only on two or three albums over twenty years ago. Everyone else feels like a replacement to me. And he was himself a replacement! It’s complicated.
Obviously any of the replacements in Kiss were just happy to be along for the ride.
John Frusciante was a replacement guitarist in the Red Hot Chili Peppers but he seems like the “real” guitarist. Like with Matt Cameron, I could dig Dave Navarro as guitarist because I already knew him from another (better) band, but otherwise whenever Frusciante leaves, I lose interest.
I accept all bass players in Metallica, even Bob Rock. They all contribute and are generally speaking, the most talented or second most talented musicians in the band.
I’ll take Chris Chaney in Jane’s Addiction. He’s a good player and stays on the edges of the thing. But Eric was the real musical soul of the band, all the best changes and melodies were his.
Anybody in the Afghan Whigs counts, all versions are just Greg Dulli & Co.
fair enough...but not for me. : )
Plus being inducted into the Hall with the rest of the band (at the band’s request, but still).
It must be the only example of when a fan joins a band to do shout-outs and dance, getting the atmosphere going, then later ends up writing and singing lead on big hit singles for them.
Good on them!
Yes I think you're right, Taylor quit because they wouldn't raise his salary. So they only pretended Wood was a full member, must be why I thought he was.
Maybe he doesn't want to go through the hazing portion of the initiation into the band and prefers to remain a hired hand instead
They wouldn't have needed to split profits 5 ways if they made Jones a Stone. As noted, Wood didn't get an equal share for years.
Ron Wood is an equity partner in the Stones, so yes he is a “real” member. If you aren’t a participant in equity from the band’s band, you are not a band member, you’re a hired hand. Regardless of what pictures you’re in…
It’s a business, and they don’t give away band memberships in crackerjack boxes these days at that level.
Ron did not attain that status at the start, I believe it followed on at some point. Maybe there was a vesting period? Don’t know.
I think Ronnie was a "full member" in terms of how he was treated and worked as part of the band. I think he participated in creative discussions and wasn't just a dude who did what they told him to do.
They just didn't give him a full share of the $$$ for a long time, though.
Darryl Jones seems much more likely to just be a hired musician than a clear participant in the band's musical decisions.
I dunno - maybe that's all Wyman ever did as well. Still, I would guess that Jones is there to do what the Stones ask and not get involved much beyond that...
I mentioned earlier that I thought Jones might not have wanted to be tied down to the Stones when he started to work with them in 1994.
I have a memory that he felt that way, though I could remember entirely incorrectly.
Jones was a very successful musician before he joined the Stones, though, and I'm sure he would've been more than content to head down that path!
In the case of Deep Purple and replacing Blackmore....
In late 1993, Purple newbie Joe Satriani was brought into Deep Purple to play pre-booked concerts; but he never made an album with Purple. Not a real member. That's why it seems wrong to give that era it's own MK. I believe MKVI has been bestowed to that lineup. I reject the MK. Nerd alert. The actual MKVI should be bestowed to the Steve Morse lineup that followed; and after Jon Lord retired in 2002, Don Airey replaced him, and MKVII was born! Both real members.
what really annoyed me is that Carr, Kulick, Singer, Vincent, etc... weren't inducted with Kiss in the HOF, but RHCP and Metallica members who'd been in the band for 15 minutes at the time of induction were. Carr, Kulick and Singer IMO all should've been inducted with Simmons, Stanley, Frehley and Criss. Those guys helped keep Kiss going after the original lineup imploded. Especially Vinnie Vincent, his two albums essentially helped give Kiss a second life after The Elder could've damn well been "the end"
I like it when bands actually replace members.
Allman Brothers- when someone leaves or dies, they are replaced with a new member. Whether or not they are full partners, I don't know or care, but they are not just sidemen.
Deep Purple- Are Morse and Airey partners? No idea, but they are presented as members of the Band.
Little Feat- same thing, Craig Fuller, Shaun Murphy, Gabe Ford etc...
Fleetwood Mac did this until Christine left for awhile and they had hired hand keyboards.
Stones- Ronnie may not have been a partner for a long time, but he was on the magazine covers and interviews and presented as a Stone. They no longer do this, however.
Yes- whenever they have a lineup change, there is a new member, even if not a partner. I know Sherwood did some session work prior to his membership, however.
Ronnie Wood is on the covers of Black and Blue, Some Girls, Emotional Rescue, Dirty Work and Bigger Bang.
Waters engineered his removal as a band member, including an agreement that he not be allowed to ever rejoin, during the recording of The Wall. Wright appeared on the tour as a hired musician, and so actually made money on the tour, unlike the remaining band members, who lost money.
Part of the reason Wright wasn’t initially involved in A Momentary Lapse of Reason was the agreement barring him from rejoining. After the Waters lawsuit, and maybe as part of its settlement, a new company was formed, Pink Floyd (1987) Ltd. The members of that were Gilmour, Mason & Wright.
Bruce Johnston is in the low right photo on the back cover of Pet Sounds.
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