Who wants to compile a list of pressing plant initials?

The Plastic Products pressings can be easily identified by the suffix of the matrix number as it appears in the dead wax. The Atlantic/Atco code number for Plastic Products is -11,-12 etc. 64C-7884 - 11 is a Plastic Products' pressing.

Rene

 

Thanks

I was not aware that "higher" matrix suffixes were used for the other factory (Plastic Products). I had always assumed they were just later copies of the records. So, would the three factories mentioned have earliest matrix suffixes of -1, -11, and -21, respectively?

Frank

 

That's one way to gauge who pressed what. I myself go for the typesetting used for the label copy on the label. And there's a major set of differences amongst the pressing plants.

 

W.B.,
I think that's the best way as pressing plants sometimes used labels from other pressing plants. Anyway, a combination is the best. Label typesetting is very interesting to me but my knowledge about it is very low. I will come back to you later about this subject if that's ok with you.

Rene

 

Thanks a lot for the nice picture. I know now were a some of my records came from.
Is the building empty?

Rene

 

Atlantic -Columbia

Atlantic-Columbia

I am still wondering why Columbia didn’t engrave in the lacquer their 3 or 4 letter mastering code for outside clients. Here is an example from 1968 :
XSBV-129879-1B. This one was mastered at Bradley, Nashville hence the third letter B.
Furthermore I just went to my Atlantic/Atco and distributed labels and found the following (albums from 1965-1968) :
All were pressed by Columbia Terre Haute! Most of them had a suffix letter A or B.
Some had a C, E or H.
Anyone who can give me some comments on this?

Rene

 

First, though named after Owen Bradley, by that time the Nashville setup was known as Columbia Studio 'B'. I don't know what the deal was but by then a lesser amount of new clients were using the custom matrix numbering setup (Chicago and New York/Hollywood abandoning such system by c.1973, Nashville continuing theirs to at least the late 1970's, and then usually on the dead wax). I mostly saw the Nashville custom numbers on 1968-69 Stax/Volt releases after they switched from Atlantic to G+W for distribution.

As for Columbia's Atlantic/Atco pressings: I thought they started doing LP's the same time as the 45's, in 1966, despite the singles being supplementary stock (pressed by Columbia-Pitman) and most LP's being Record Club (with the label copy usually likewise being Pitman). In the case of Columbia lacquers, 'E' was usually the fifth cut, and 'H' the eighth. I rarely saw that, though I did see '1D' designations on some 45 lacquers.

And as for label copy typesetting variations: I wouldn't mind . . .

 

So, the letters are revering to the recuts and not to the pressing plants?
And what about the numbers?

Rene

 

The Monarch suffix number code is -21/-22 etc.
The MGM suffix number code is -1/-2 etc. After Jan 1965 the MGM pressing plant was replaced by Specialty.
The American Pressing Corp code is -31/-32 etc.

Rene

 

They usually refer to the tape master and/or mix. 1 would be the first, 2 the second, 3 the third et al. (On Bob Dylan's Blonde on Blonde I have two different copies whereby the stereo mix on "I Want You" differed tremendously; one lacquer had a "-3x" designation while the other had a "-2x.")

 

OK, but imagine the lacquer with suffix -1A, that was sent to one of the pressing plant,had to be replaced. What whould be the next number (from the same master tape)?

 

Typesetting labels

I like to start with the typesetting labels from Plastic Products as I am well informed about this plant.
Plastic Products had an in-house typesetting operation. I don’t know from which date, but in any case from the 78 rpm era onwards.
First they used moulds (copper, later zinc ?) to print the record’s logo.
Later on, during the mid sixties, the moulds were replaced by an thin aluminium plate with 6 labels on it including the typesetting (see attached scan)
Also attached are two label scans : the first one from June 1963 and the second one from Dec 1967.
Here are my questions :
How are the moulds from copper or zinc made?
Same question from the aluminium plate.
What fonts type did Plastic Products use before and after 1967(see label scans)
I agree with you that between the different pressing plants there are some minor differencies in logo’s.For instance the stripes around the stack of records .
What else can you tell me about this label typesetting?

Rene

 

Let's see . . .


The typesetting from that (1967) and Stax 138 (1963) employ different thicknesses of fonts from the Vogue family, a typeface offered by Intertype (one of the hot-metal typesetting companies of the olden days, besides Linotype). Vogue Bold and Vogue Heavy are in use here. If a song was particularly long in title and they were pressed for space, they'd use Vogue Bold Condensed (as on pre-1956 Scranton-pressed Capitol 45 labels). Judging from anything like the left side of each perimeter print on that label sheet, what's the spacing (3⅞”?) between labels? That might be a hint as to their standards for label bleed for 3⅝” trim. After 1968 the use of these typefaces were less frequent, though I saw a 1971 45 on a subsidiary label (I think one connected with Sly Stone) where they used these fonts. I seem also to recall this type of typesetting in use on their pressings of classic Sun singles by the likes of Elvis, Johnny Cash, Jerry Lee Lewis, etc.


By the time of this label in 1968, the folks at Plastic were using Varitype Univers with Bold. This was in effect through to the end of '71, by 1972 they were switching to phototypesetting, first using Univers 55 and 65, then settling on Helvetica with Medium (and sometimes using Helvetica Bold Condensed, i.e. on pressings for Stax-distributed KoKo of Luther Ingram fame).

My guess about the copper/zinc molds is that it had to do with the printing by letterpress, as opposed to the offset printing of later times (as per that aluminum plate).

 

I've just checked my first pressings of three of my early Atlantic LPs (John Coltrane's Giant Steps and My Favorite Things, and The Drifters' Under The Boardwalk - all mono) and my three Atlantic Drifters singles ("Up On The Roof," "Under The Boardwalk" and "Saturday Night At The Movies"). I am definitely sure that MGM pressed my particular copies of My Favorite Things and Under The Boardwalk LPs, based on the MGM symbol info. But my copy of Giant Steps has no identifying info other than the matrix number, the lacquer cutting and the "AT." (It might have also been pressed by MGM, judging by the feel of the vinyl.) My three singles were definitely pressed by Plastic Products in Memphis, TN (note the -11 suffix after the matrix number on those 45s).

 

I think it's a Preswell pressing.
Look if you can find a machine stamped letter in the dead wax. Also, if the ring around the label area is about 2 3/4 than for sure it's Preswell.
What do you mean by lacquer cutting identification?

Rene

 

There is no machine-stamped letter in the lead-out groove of my copy of Giant Steps.

The lacquer cutting identification on all Atlantic LPs whose lacquers were actually cut by Atlantic's studios is in the form of a letter or letters which come immediately after the matrix. For Atlantic singles, that info is a number code after the matrix.

 

Thanks W.B for your valuable info. I really enjoyed it!
Attached is a picture from the zinc mold (4 together).
Also is a label scan of the Stax album pressed at Plastic Products. This is in fact the only Stax album pressed at this plant.
Also is a label scan of Stax 0143. This label is from Aug 1972.
I don't understand what you mean by the spacing between the labels.Which value do you want me to measure?

 

OK, understand.
On most of the Preswell pressings you will find stamped letters but not on all.I have a couple of them without any stamped letters. The ring is important for identification.
Does your copy has a black label ?

Rene

 

Nope. It has the so-called "bullet" label, which is mostly white, but with an orange/purple colorband at the edge and the orange/purple spinner symbol at center.

 

As to that Atco zinc mold . . . measure from the top of one "A" in "ATCO" on the top label to the top of the other "A" on the bottom label . . . and from the far left side of the "A" on the left label to the far left side of the "A" on the right label. (Or the top and left sides of the trumpet. Or whatever.) That might be a clue as to Plastic's specs for spacing.

 

Atco zinc mold : from top A as well as from the far left side : both measure 4 1/16.
Aluminum plate : from the top label top-S to the middle label top-S :4 1/4; from top label left leftside-S to top label right leftside-S : 3 7/8.
How does this measurements fit into the spacing?
I can remember that you have to put the plate around a cylinder and when it starts running you will get a sheet of paper with 6 labels on it. I have no idea what the name is for such a machine (stencil?).
Do you know how the zinc mold is made?
Anything else you can tell meabout the LP scan (fonts etc) as well as the yellow Stax labels?

Rene

 

Thanks for that valuable info. I've seen 45 label sheets with spacing 3⅞” apart both top -> bottom and left -> right. Columbia's 45 styrene label spacing standards were 3¾” apart, and LP and 45 vinyl label spacing was 4¼” (for 45's, 3⅞” bleed). RCA LP label spacing was 4-5/32”, and Capitol LP spacing in the 1970's was 4-3/16”. Speaking of Capitol - their 45 label sheet spacing was 3-9/16” for a label trim of 3-5/16” (after 1968, when the "non-slip" 45's with 360 interlocking serrations were introduced).

As to the fonts on that Stax LP: Again, Vogue Bold and Heavy; on that 1972 Stax 45 label, Univers 55 and 65. In the Atlantic era, yellow Stax LP labels signified stereo.

And it was a lithographic offset printer that printed those labels that came from that aluminum plate inserted into the cylinder. The labels were then die-cut, though the way the circles ran on the label, you'd think they were hand-cut if you didn't know better.

 

I did the same measurements with a yellow Stax label from 1974 : 3 7/8 and 3 7/8.
How important are those values and what does it tell you?
Next time some Monarch scans if that is ok with you.

Rene