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"WHY 45 RPM?" Great 45 RPM 12" LP explanation by Kevin Gray!

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by JasonK, Nov 19, 2007.

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  1. turtle2344

    turtle2344 New Member

    Location:
    Washington State
    I've had that happen too. I'm listening and then I think, hey what happpened to the high frequencies, they're gone!

    It's hard to judge what a poster intends sometimes. I used to never use smiley faces or write "ha, ha." But now I sometimes do because it helps put the words into context, like I'm being (or trying to be) funny. Also I avoid sarcasm, which I'm personally fond of, like the plague! It doesn't seem to work on my posts at all. So much for the digression... Ha, ha! :D
     
  2. JBStephens

    JBStephens I don't "like", "share", "tweet", or CARE. In Memoriam

    Location:
    South Mountain, NC
    I have 1960 Audio Fidelity pressings cut on a Westrex/Scully and they're anything but rolled off, even on the last tracks of the side. No distortion, no splatter, no mistracking. They're actually pretty amazing, sound-wise. Here's what they say on the back of the album.
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    A talented operator could cut a wonderful sounding record with the Westrex/Scully 45/45 system. Why do you think some RCA-Victor LIVING STEREO LP's cost hundreds of dollars now? They sound amazing and were cut from 1958-63.

    Finding one that wasn't chewed up by the vintage needle that COULD NOT TRACK the uncompromised information on the grooves is another reason the mint LIVING STEREOs cost so much money now.

    Don't forget to watch these crucial films:

    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=68559
     
    John Bliss likes this.
  4. arachnophilia

    arachnophilia Forum Resident

    Location:
    south florida
    err, i think you misunderstood.

    i wasn't talking about linear speed, because records aren't linear. i think we all have some understanding that the linear speed on the outside of a record is faster than on the inside, as a function of the diameter.

    but i was talking about rotation, in that particular instance. maybe "speed" is the wrong word, but it's how a lot of people colloquially refer to RPM. what i was saying is that the diameter of where the groove is on the record (ie: it's linear speed) is more important than the speed at which the platter rotates.

    if you'll notice, the part of my argument that you cut out, the basis for that conclusion, is written in terms of linear speed as a function of diameter. i was attempting to explain why 7" 45's sound worse than 12" 33's, and it has to do with that linear speed being faster on the 12" due to its change as a function of the increased diameter of the label. the difference between the linear speed of a 7" 45 and 12" 33's inner groove is much, much greater than the difference between a 12" 33 and 12" 45's inner groove.
     
  5. Thanks Jason for posting this. This kind of information is one of the main reasons why I love this forum.
     
  6. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
    Okay - here's something along the lines of what I said.


    What a fantastic amount of information in such a long sentence! (Followed by such a fantastic amount of information in such a short sentence.)
     
  7. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
  8. Borbus

    Borbus New Member

    Location:
    UK
    Does anyone know why modern 12" singles are 33rpm? Is it just so they can cut the groove wider yet still fit more than one track on each side? I don't think a 45rpm record would make it any harder for a DJ to spin.
     
  9. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    Lots of 12" singles from 25-30 years ago were 33 1/3 too.
     
  10. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
    In the UK they were 45rpm as standard, very rarely 33rpm. It was 33 as a rule for a while I'd say come mid/late 90s, but more 45s seem to be turning up again over here.
     
  11. ubsman

    ubsman Active Member

    Location:
    Utah
    Yep, that was rather pathetic. I wonder if some companies didn't know how to make them at 45RPM.
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    Some producers felt that the 12" 33 1/3 RPM single sounded better than at the faster speed. I did as well. Much easier to track, etc.
     
  13. JBStephens

    JBStephens I don't "like", "share", "tweet", or CARE. In Memoriam

    Location:
    South Mountain, NC
    That's why so many early stereo pressings had that little warning on the back about not playing it on mono equipment. They meant it. Just like the 78's that say "Use a new needle for each playing." They meant that, too.
     
  14. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

  15. So then, I guess 156 rpm would be twice as good as the 78, eh? :D

    I wonder at what speed the tradeoff between sound quality and controlling the effects of inertia would hit...
     
  16. John Carsell

    John Carsell Forum Resident

    Location:
    Northwest Illinois
    I've also ran across a few that don't specify on the label on way or the other.

    Flip a coin I guess.
     
  17. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
    I've got one that's 45 on one side and 33 on the other. I'm not sure if it mentions it on the labels. Early 21st century I think. I've got one 12" that sounds wrong at either speed. That confuses me.
     
  18. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
    Twice as good? It would be 78 better.

    In terms of trade off - that's the kind of science I can be interested in. It's the kind of thing that could take your arm off if you touched the turntable whilst in motion.
     
  19. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England

    You say that in the past tense. What made you change your mind? (Apart from 45 being 11 2/3 better.)
     
  20. Raunchnroll

    Raunchnroll Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Just increase size of the vinyl. One yard diameter LP anyone?
     
  21. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
    Imagine the art work!
     
  22. turtle2344

    turtle2344 New Member

    Location:
    Washington State
    I've always thought 33 rpm was shorthand for 33 & a 3rd, but did they change the speed to a whole number at some point? If so, when?
     
  23. Mike the Fish

    Mike the Fish Señor Member

    Location:
    England
    I think it's still 33 1/3. Just called 33.
     
  24. Dragun

    Dragun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    [​IMG]
     
  25. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    Sagamore Beach, Ma
    Priceless!
     
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