Why do sellers still charge so much for certain cds and cd box sets?

I paid a lot to get a genuinely rare CD once. Within a year or so a new release appeared with much better sound and extras besides. Now that rarity is pretty much unwanted.

I've also had it where I get into collecting up all the non-LP singles of some act to go with their album(s), and within a year or so again, some small label will put the whole lot out on a new CD or LP set with at least one super-rare or unreleased track or three! There's still a couple where that hasn't happened so far, but anyone want the complete Gene & Debbe discography? Can I interest you in a stack of singles by The Pozo-Seco Singers, The Gentrys, The Cowsills, or The Staccatos of Canada perhaps?

Also I remember seeing people on eBay buying a CD by Sweetwater for crazy prices that Rhino Handmade released in a limited number... while they were still for sale at the Rhino website! If they could sign up there to pay double the price on eBay why couldn't they sign in at Rhino and 'save' 50%?

 

People have unrealistic expectations that if sellers reduced their prices to reasonable, then they would be able to buy all that stuff. If sellers did that, most people would wind up not being able to buy it anyway.

It's like when people complain about ticket scalpers: they imagine that if scalping were outlawed, then they would be able to get those good seats for face value. Well, when artists block scalpers so only fans can buy and use the tickets, what often happens is that many fans complain they cannot get any tickets at all, because all the good seats still get bought up in the first 10 seconds of the sale. Except now those fans can't even get tickets from scalpers.

In NYC record stores that price reasonably, the bins for bands like Zeppelin, Hendrix or Funkadelic are always empty. There are so many record collectors in NYC, when a store puts out good stuff at a good price, someone will grab it in 15 minutes. You usually only get the great stuff if you happen to visit the store right when they put the stuff out, or you're a long-time customer friendly with clerks will show you the great stuff before they put it out in the bins. There was one record store in NYC, now closed, whose owner marked everything for twice its value (that store was often ridiculed on this board). Every time I went there, I'd see bins full of great stuff on my wish list, but I'd never buy it because the prices were so outrageously high. If that owner reduced his prices, I wouldn't expect to walk in there and just buy all that stuff. It would become like every other record store in the city, empty bins because that stuff will get taken by someone else in 15 minutes.

Many buyers have a psychological thing about overpaying for something. Those same people have a psychological thing when they sell something for less than what they think they could squeeze out of a buyer. Buyers and sellers aren't always logical. There's often a psychological "feel good" element to people needing to feel like they got the advantage on both sides of a transaction.

There are various reasons why sellers will list for outrageous prices and get away with it.

A seller can set up an automated system where they list a widget for $100 on, say, Amazon Marketplace. If someone buys it, their computer system automatically buys that widget for $50 from, say, Discogs, and has that item drop shipped from the Discogs seller to their buyer on Amazon Marketplace. They've set up a a computer program that adjusts their price based on where they can get it from for cheaper. It's letting a computer program make the money for you, taking advantage of buyers who shop on Amazon Marketplace only but aren't aware to look to another source for a better price.

Also, some sellers will list on Amazon Marketplace a widget for $20 that you can buy at, say, Walmart for $10. There are some people who cannot access Walmart locally, or whom Walmart won't ship to, for various reasons. The seller is just a middleman with an automated system set up to have Walmart ship to his shipper, then his shipper forwards it to his buyer, with the seller pocketing the difference.

Just because you can produce the first 5,000 of a product doesn't always mean it's no work to produce the next 5,000. You go to a restaurant and order small fries. They look great when they bring it out, so you say, hey make this large fries. The kitchen has to go through a whole process just to cut and cook some extra fries, just like your original order. When a band puts together a 5,000 copy release, you don't just change the 5,000 to a 10,000 in one contract and extra product magically appears. You may have to renegotiate another license, another production order, another distribution run, additional marketing efforts to let retailers know of the additional product, etc., etc.

Someone has to care enough to do that work. If you don't like paying $100 for an OOP $50 box set, what if I told you, hey why don't you just work a few more hours late at your job to make that extra $50 to cover the difference? It's not that easy for you to just do that, and you may not care to. For bands, they can also face a backlash from fans when they break their limited runs. Think about all the threads on this forum of people upset and angry when they bought something thinking it was a 5,000 only run, then the label comes out with a second pressing.

Also, just because you can sell 5,000 of a product fast doesn't mean you can sell the next 5,000 as easily. That second 5,000 batch may come with more work and risk. I see a lot of bands play 1,000 person venues in NYC who sell out fast. Hot band! Next tour, they come back around to a 2,000 person venue, and they cannot come close to filling that venue. Many limited products are so because it gets people on the fence to buy it for full price (because it's limited, so buy now or lose out). If you do 5,000 of a product, many fans on the fence might spring for it because they don't want to lose out. Make it an unlimited product, and many fans won't bother buying it because the scarcity isn't there anymore.

 

It can often be the smarter play in the long run to price lower, but that doesn't always apply to the collectibles market. For example:

Record Store A: Owner buys $50 of records, then lists them for $75. His prices are very reasonable, so his customers will quicky buy those records within a week. Next week, he uses the $75 he now has to buy $75 of records, and lists them for $100. His prices are very reasonable, so his customers will quickly buy those records within a week. Next week, he uses the $100 he has to buy $100 of records, and lists them for $150. You can see where this is going: after three weeks, he has turned his original $50 into $150.

Record Store B: Owner buys $50 of records, then lists them for $100. He's trying to get top dollar, and his records sit on the shelf for three weeks before some rich guy buys them. After three weeks, he has turned his original $50 into $100.

Who did better, Record Store A or Record Store B? Record Store A is doing what grocery stores do. Grocery stores make very thin profits on what they sell, but they have an unlimited supply of potatoes they can easily obtain and an unlimited number of customers who will buy potatoes all day long. The volume of transactions is how they make their money. But with collectibles, it's not so easy to recycle the money you made last week into fresh inventory to sell for the next week. What's the smartest move for a seller depends on what they are selling and the market they are playing in.

 

Valid points by all

 

There is also the issue that some albums are really not available on Spotify or Youtube or anywhere else you can easily access. In that case, spending a little more for the CD can make sense if you want to hear the music. Probably not $100, but maybe $20 might not be so crazy.

 

They're probably hoping that folks are going to see cds as being like vinyl someday

 

I totally get what you're saying. 100%! What I'm saying, my main point, is that almost 40 years into the CD era, and with digital reproduction technology so much more accessible than things were at a similar stage in the vinyl era, I'm surprised bands or labels don't really have a good way to do small batch production of CDs, in a quality above a home burned product if not approaching a sealed package release you can buy in a store. Your point about the second 5000 possibly being harder to sell out than the first 5000 is well taken. What I'm proposing is using technology to reduce that second 5000 order down to 1000 or 500 or 250 or whatever low number keeps a release available. I also get the collectible side of things, why an artist might want to stay cool with their big fans who buy limited edition stuff - I'm talking about getting the music out even if it's not the same fancy pants product that the hardcore fans snapped up.

I don't buy into your comparison to an order of fries. The business I'm in is producing running races. If I set up a race that has a budget and production plan for 5000 runners, and for whatever reason I get demand from 7500 runners, I explore any way I can to expand what we're doing to accommodate the additional demand. Just like with the music industry, the bulk of my expenses to produce the race are fixed costs, and there are some variable costs depending on volume. The more runners that want to do our races, the lower my per runner cost becomes. Here's a real world example...We produce a popular half marathon that has a narrow course section from mile 1.5-2.5, so we are limited to starting about 1000 runners at a time. About 10 years ago we got some unexpected publicity when we opened registration and sold out those 1000 spots in 3 days. We had never had more than about 800 in this race and normally the registration window was about 3 months! Our staff brainstormed how we could meet the additional interest, and we decided to add another start group of 1000 that would start 2 hours later. We reopened registration and although we didn't quite sell out the second group of 1000 we came very close. Same thing with CDs. Not gonna say I know anything about the economics of producing CDs, but I see engineering and producer costs paid up front, artwork as a one-time expense, promotion. I would think the actual cost of the physical media would be on the smaller side of the equation, and I would think subsequent reissues would have a lower per unit cost although I imagine there would be exceptions. But in general, the more CDs you can move, the lower your per unit cost is and the more chance an artist/label has for a higher profit. Same thing with fries. Yes, the kitchen needs to cook more to move you from a small to a large. But they already have the oil ready to go. The kitchen electricity is on and needs to be paid for no matter if you order a small or a large. The cooks are paid to be there regardless of whether you order a small or a large. The POS software costs the same regardless if I order a small or a large. If I own the business, for the cost of a potato and a shake of salt, if I can get you to upgrade to a large fries that's a win for me.

Dang, now I want fries!!!

 

It sounds like you know what the demand is before the actual event is held. In the cd example, the demand is not known.

 

"Wouldn't I care if a CD sells for an over the top price?" Are you serious? Why would I? If you truly are bothered so much about what two people agree to in terms of a selling/buying price... gosh maybe you have too much time on your hands. I just don't understand why anyone else would care so much. I mean honestly, what business is it of yours? If it happens to be a title that you really wanted then I can at least understand your disappointment or frustration but such is life. Your opening post, "But I'm of the opinion that no cd box set in today's age should be only 50 dollars less than it was in the pre download and streaming era. Especially ones that are used. And I don't care if a cd is out of print, no one needs to sell a single cd for 100 dollars or even 50 dollars." is ludicrous to me. You are entirely welcomed to hold any opinion you like, but this seems to be founded in a deep lack of understanding of how free-markets work, and very basic economic rules of supply and demand, and how collectors value things. I hope this doesn't come across as a personal attack. Although I truly am bewildered by your opinion and your apparent need to share it, I don't mean to attack you personally. I just honestly don't understand where you are coming from. Do people who buy and sell other collectibles (stamps, coins, trading cards, limited edition sports cars, etc) at inflated prices bother you too? What about stocks and real estate? Is it music in general (like vinyl and rare old blues 78's) or specifically CDs and CD box sets? I am honestly curious. Thanks.

 

My entire OP is in relation to how I feel as it applies to ME as a potential buyer. At NO time did I say a cd or box set shouldn't be purchased by others at high prices. If on a different thread I said...."KISS should have never taken off their makeup, I don't care how much they needed the gimmick to fuel a resurgence", would you then reply..."Why do you care if they took off the makeup? Other people obviously still liked them during that period. Who are you to tell them what they should have done?" I was just giving my personal thoughts about sellers charging so much. It was a subjective statement than you seem to think I feel is gospel truth, I don't. Maybe you're under the impression that anyone who states emphatically the way they think things should be, means that they believe everyone else's position is wrong. They don't. As to your question about other product being sold at high prices, and allow me to say this applies to me as a potential buyer and not anyone else, with stamps, cars, cards etc. It's different, IMO, than cds. As I said in the OP, the cd has the same music, most of the time available in other formats, such as download and streaming. I also said in a different response on this same thread that if it's mainly the cd format and not only the music someone is after, then I understand it more. I also said too though that they could get the same music in cd format burned and in lossless. Now it does make sense, IMO, just for the idea of something being "rare", if it really is, that items of that nature are sold higher. But to me because the main aspect of a cd is the music, and blank cds are available, the music and discs are never really rare.

 

You suggest that it is the format and not the music that's keeping prices high. I suggest that it is beloved music (i.e. the music is loved by someone) and the tangible, tactile, real, physical format of an material object. A combination of the two. If the format of the CD is "doing terrible out there at the stores," maybe it's because the music is either of lesser quality, lesser cultural influence, "lesser" in the current zeitgeist, more "transient" and "disposable" or "æther like" in a current day and age where people expect many things (if not everything) to come for "free" out of the air, their computers, what have you.

It's one thing to have the music from the complete On The Corner recordings box on a computer file. It's another to engage with the music while handling and appreciating the wonderful objet d'art that is that release's colorful and impressive embossed metal container.

 

I feel ya. I stream most of the time but would never part with my cds, and I would want more than ample compensation if I did. That is probably the answer I'm looking for. They very well could be being sold by folks who don't really want or need to part with them, but if they do, they want to make it really worth their while.

 

Perhaps they don't want to sell it, but if someone offers you $300, then maybe you will let it go.

 

It would have to be some ultra rare item high on my wishlist. I bought these CDs for quite reasonable prices (I mean cheap).

 

Do Rhino ship overseas?

 

The best time to get a genuinely rare CD is when it gets reissued. People will sell the original for a lot less than it previously sold. That's if you want the original.

 

Good point. They did post to Canada but I couldn't say about elsewhere. I vaguely remember that there were restrictions sometimes for labels to sell 'outside' their market. An easy example is how See For Miles had those Ventures 2 LPs on 1 CD in Europe, and One Way had similar but sometimes different LP combinations for the North American market , and they were issuing them at the same time.

 

With the drop in the number of buyers for content on CD, the only way to cover all of the cost of putting out physical product is to raise the price of the few that do sell. The cost of putting together a box is even worse. Making an item "limited" may increase the appeal to potential buyers, but what may really be happening is that the company pushing the product may know that they can't sell that many units to begin with.

 

There's a cd I'm bidding on at the moment on eBay that's been out of print. I lost my burned physical copy and since then as well my laptop's screen broke. On both eBay and Amazon the cd is ridiculous prices IMO with the lowest around 40 dollars and the highest at 80 dollars, with plenty of 50 and 60 dollar areas in between. Out of the blue I was scrolling and found a seller who had it listed in good condition with 2 other cds as a bundle for a starting price of only 4.99. He either isn't aware of what others are trying to sell this cd for or he realizes they aren't selling so he's not worried about it. Either way I put in a pretty strong bid compared to the starting price and what the highest bidder was before me. Hopefully soon I'll be able to pull off this miracle of getting it at a regular cd price.

 

It does? Wow maybe I should sell mine

 

Sounds good. Hopefully it works out for you.