Why Giles Won’t Remix Rubber Soul/Revolver

They are what they are. Next thing you know someone's gonna take all the reverb off All Things Must Pass

 

Agreed. Giles did a fantastic job on Pepper! It's the best stereo version.

And I prefer both remixes of TWA and Abbey road to the original stereo LPs.

 

I don't get it. He did Pepper which was all done using 4-track machines, but he can't do Revolver or Rubber Soul because it's all on 4-track? Does this make any sense?

 

Perhaps that is how they should be heard though. A strange mixing choice admittedly, but it's a choice they made in 1966 for two mixes. If they wanted to bring the drum fills up, nothing was stopping them.

 

Yes it does. I already answered this a few posts back!

 

The vast, vast majority of albums are not meant to be remixed.

 

You completely miss the point, but then all the Giles-bashing misses the point as well.

I love the original mixes, quirky and strange as some of the choices may seem all these years later. There are 500 versions available of the original mixes of every Beatles album, so why does Giles' work piss so many people here off? Whether or not he's the "right man" misses the point too, since nobody else has access to the tapes.

"Tampering With History." OK. Any remix would be tampering with history, no matter who did the work.

 

I actually do like Giles work on 1+ and don't have a problem with him remixing the material. I don't like the idea of them being seen as definitive versions of the albums though.

What I'd rather see happen is if The Beatles catalogue has to be remixed, it comes out as a box set for each years material and it's outtakes. A box for every year from 1963 onwards (the first including 1962 stuff too, I assume there's not much), with wonderful booklets and packaging, loads of great photos and outtakes galore, leaving the original albums untampered with, but with beautiful sounding masterings. They could even include the Decca audition, Carnival of Light, improved versions of the Anthology tracks, allsorts of stuff, put it all out! Sadly we have this instead. Also, get the most qualified and experienced man to do the job they can. Giles is undoubtedly talented, but ultimately it seems his connections got him this role as much as his talent. If he genuinely is the best man, great, but if someone else can do a better job, but isn't being considered because of the lack of family connections, that's a wasted opportunity. They can't keep remixing this music, it's important to get it right.

 

Interesting; I always thought they were well into lots of track bouncing by Revolver.

 

I can't deny this sounds absolutely fascinating.

 

They did not sync the multi tracks together,

They bounced 4 tracks from one machine onto track 1 on another machine and then worked from that machine.

Syncing multitrack machines was years off in fact it was first done on Fleetwood Mac’s album rumors.

 

Do you not think the idea I suggest above has merit? I think it would be a great way to please both crowds and keeps the original mixes out there in the best possible quality for the purists. It would also give us totally new products and designs for the new remixes, something fresh. I think doing it like that would be a real success, even if they started with a 1967 box instead of the Peppers remix and not at the beginning.

I thoroughly enjoyed the 1+ remixes and Love, but feel a disconnect when it's an original album being altered. I just can't enjoy the remixes in that context. To me it just feels wrong. I'm far from alone with that. The actual remixes themselves, I don't really have a problem with. How much I like them varies from track to track. My favourite is Long Long Long. Beautiful. It really brought out the melody.

 

I hate to interrupt The Great Giles Martin Debate, Round 382, but it seems that this entire thread has misinterpreted the original article -- which is odd, because the title is not confusing: "Why The Beatles Haven't Remixed 'Rubber Soul' or 'Revolver' Yet."

YET.

It doesn't say he "won't" -- just that he's not doing it yet. He says that "a lot of people want him to" and that he's "constantly looking at how we would approach it"; the only thing holding them back is the wait for the software to improve. They've been working on the AI for this tech for years; we will hear a stereo "She Loves You" someday, or the entire EMI staff will die trying.

Even though the UCR article conveyed the right message in their title, it also helps to read the original Rolling Stone article, which has a lot more info.

The Beatles in Spatial Audio: Producer Giles Martin on How It All Works

 

If I had Optimal pressed from analog master tapes, Stereo LP discs, and 45 singles UK Parlophone style, (and the replica flip back sleeves can be done away with in the sake of cost control) and the mono UK LP output kept in print the same way, I'd be plenty happy. No remixes necessary, even high res PCM sources or DSD good enough to reduce wear and tear on the tapes. Keep the core catalog available in good versions for those who want it.

 

As far as Rubber Soul and Revolver go, I'd like to hear what can be done with them. The original stereo mixes are very flawed and knowing The Beatles weren't there for the stereo mixes, means that I don't feel precious about them. I still enjoy those wonky original mixes though! I treasure the original 1965 UK Rubber Soul stereo vinyl. What a strange one it is!

 

They synced two 4-tracks together for "A Day In The Life" I think - or tried, with a sync track. Maybe they ended up just running them simultaneously for the final mix (more tracks of orchestra passes were on the second machine) but the sync technique was tried, apparently.

Suposedly, The Zombies used this newly developed syncing technique at EMI (once they'd got a handle on it) on Odessey & Oracle.

 

This is highly frustrating to hear. This is why the Pepper remix sucks, big time. He’s trying to digitally separate stuff and all around fooling with the sound in a detrimental way. Anyone remember the ugly double tracking of the snare in Good Morning, Good Morning? And why does he feel he has to shift bass frequencies to the center? This is all completely unnecessary, and only leads to pretty crappy remixes.

The technology for a great stereo mix of these albums has been around since 1965 and 1966. It’s only gotten better since. Ron Furmanek was making killer Beatles remixes in the 1990s. What’s your excuse, Giles?

 

More than anything that's what I'd like to see. It's frustrating that we're getting these modern remixes when there's never been readily available absolutely top quality CDs of some of the original mixes, the mono CD box probably got closest, but that was an expensive limited edition. All could do with definitive CDs and vinyl, with no fixes or remixing. Just beautiful uncompressed mastering that gets the maximum clarity and detail out of those old mixes. The mono vinyl box was sublime and how to do it. Then they can remix the catalogue as much as they want!

 

yeah. what about that?

this now acceptable yet often wholly unnecessary practice has astonished me for some time. it's not as if these older records were "unlistenable".

just make some new recordings, if they're so good. let's add some paint over picasso too.

 

Sorry but nope they didn’t and they didn’t try either, the technology was just not available in 1967 and it wouldn’t be available for a decade.

They did however record the orchestra tracks (2 passes) on all 4 tracks on one machine then flew it in or bounced it over to the master in real time.

 

It's easy if you try.

 

Yes, they did, but they were flown together, no proper sync technology just then (to my knowledge).

I was more psyched than most to hear that Giles was doing the remixes, as i thought LOVE was a masterpiece. I just think it's been a mixed bag ever since. Little things he tried, like making Ringo's toms "stereo" on Abbey Road, sounded terrible, with conspicuous artifacts that turned Ringo's toms into Bev Bevan's. Pft.

I think it's at this point--when we get into trying to create a "space" or "experience" at the expense of a good mix--when the plot is lost. They say you can never tread in the same river twice, and that, for me, is what the old mixes, warts and all, represent.


Dan

 

Ken Townsend recalls syncing the machines with a sync track... [YouTube]

 

I'm holding out for a decaphonic Revolver

 

This is news to me. Interesting that he's admitting to botching the Pepper remix. It was pretty ordinary