I've liked vintage NOS tubes for the small driver tubes in my CJ Premier 12 amps. Perhaps much of this is that I tracked down the tubes that were the same as the originals that came with those amps. On the other hand I've found that the Tungsol 6550s and especially the KT120s sound absolutely terrific in the amps! I also have some NOS Svetlana winged C 6550s which sound great, but won't be too sad when those are gone as the Tungsol 6550s are excellent too. (I've been using mostly the TS 6550s for years now, until I recently tried the KT120s)
I was able to secure a bunch of TS6550s for my trio of VTL amps before all the tube madness. Yet to try them in these amps, have been using GoldLion KT88s, so good to hear you have had a good experience. I'd have loved to try KT12o, but VTL warned me off. Assume the transformers aren't up to the task.
The Premier 12s originally came with GE 6550s which lasted a long time. Once those were done CJ had been recommending the TS 6550s as a replacement. I found the TS tubes maintained the original sound of the amps really well. No odd changes in tone or detriment to anything that I could detect. When the 6922 tubes got old in my CJ Premier 16LS2 preamp I tried tube rolling for the first time, especially some hyped NOS tubes. Didn't sound the same. CJ recommended Electro Harmonix 6922s and - badaboom! - the familiar sound of the 16LS2 was back! I guess they know what they are doing
Have to say that after two weeks with the Sophia Electric KT88-ST tubes, I'm delighted with them. And since they come from the land of rice and soy sauce, there are no sanctions as yet to stop you or I enjoying them.
bumping this... How's it going for people finding tubes at this time? Any change? As I've said before I've got my back ups. But I've also been checking availability out of curiosity. The Tube Store has been out of TungSol power tubes (e.g. KT120/6550) and some Electroharmonix tubes for quite a while. I notice Upscale Audio still has those tubes available, but at the similar pay-through-the-nose prices as earlier in the "tube crises." Anyone have word on the state of tube availability?
Under the circumstances it pays to stock up on your choices cause who really knows what’s going to happen. I don’t see a great resurgence of tubes to the average consumer market so all bets are off. I guess it’s the old “better be safe than sorry” deal.
Nothing's changed in the NOS world. I should start calling them vintage tubes. Reliable dealers are charging way too much for NOS or what could be ANOS. I've got my backups, some I paid too much for. Something I had to laugh about; EH has announced they're selling Svetlana Winged C's. Yeah, right. Svetlana's been out of business for years. New Sensor has a great business plan, buying the names of premium tube companies. (And I'm not knocking the quality of their tubes).
Tubes are such a limited and esoteric product that it would be difficult for someone from west to really get a handle on what actually is going on. As perhaps another example, double edge razor blades, though not popular in the US are popular in other countries. The Gillette company, which is owned by Proctor and Gamble has about 50% of the world razor blade market. From what I gather, both Gillette and other DE razor blades have a huge manufacturing presence in Russia. Razor blade production seems to be centered in St. Petersburg, with PPI (Petersburg Products International) being the largest producer and operated by Anerican Gillette. Five months into the conflict, I have noticed none or very little change in price or availability of Russian made DE razor blades here in America. Pretty much everything that was available on Amazon is still very much available. The price increases I am seeing are more indicative of a cross the board prices, that take account for inflation and supply chain difficulties.
I got an octet of the fat boy 6CA7EH's back in March from Upscale right before they raised their prices. I'm glad I did as they make great back up tubes, and after I sold a set of original Sylvanias a decade ago, I was wanting to have a set of this type of tube to go along with my traditional European style EL34's for my Marantz 9's... As for the overall quality of current production Russian tubes, I must say I am very pleased with the octet of Mullard El34 reissues I've been running since July of 2021. They are at least comparable to the high hour Mullard XF2 dual halos I was running before. It could be because the latter were on their last legs....
Doesn’t seem like pricing or availability is much better now than it was in the Spring. Tubedepot still doesn’t appear to be selling Russian made tubes, TubsStore is out of a lot of them, and although Upscale seems to have removed order limits, prices are still high.
Which would tend to indicate that Upscale Audio knows the supply chain. They also appear to understand the nature of supply and demand...
Razor blades are a world wide item and the same holds true with tubes, I feel that the manufacturing is continuing. Why put people out of work? If they can make razor blades, they sure as hell will continue to make tubes. If Russia production were to stop, China would jump at the chance to take over that market.
I would not take the razor blade analogy too far …. it’s something of a false equivalency. There are many more factories producing blades than audio tubes …. and they’re probably easier to make. I do agree that Upscale eliminating purchase limits suggests that supply chain constraints are less problematic. Pricing may well be solely a function of tarrifs at this point.
I don't think the actual number of factories makes a difference here. Both products have a worldwide market. Both products are produced in significant numbers. Meaning these factories are producing a good percentage of those products which are used in the world today. There is little compeling reason to think or assume that one line of products are being produced while another are not. My money is on that they are both in production and tube hoarding is probably not a good monetary investment at present. This is referring to new production.
I don’t use many tubes but I would at least want a couple sets of back ups of my chosen ones. It’s not hoarding just peace of mind.
Which is something we all do or should be doing. This means backing up on a regular and continuous basis. Since we are only into the Russian thing six months now, most people should have already been 80% backed up. If you have new gear and you need some of the new American tubes, like the 300B's, the Russia thing does not enter into the picture, as far as price or availability is concerned. I would imagine, that given the current shortages, the amplifier demand has lessened up. That should take some strain off of the market and provide some breathing room. Those who require those few extra tubes for back-up, I don't see that as an issue. My comment is not to be buying up large excess quantities, unless the price is really right. Things are always subject to change but I don't see a real tube shortage at the present. Perhaps a little tight, but I don't see it becoming an actual shortage, at least at this point. A lot of people with tube amplifiers also have SS amps for back-ups. Most of us do have enough tubes for the present and the near future. After that, the SS amps come out, until the tube situation has leveled out.
I find my tube amps too important to the sound of my system to consider SS amps as a "back up." I use Tungsol KT120 and 6550s for my amps, and Electro Harmonix 6922s for my preamp. I find those particular tubes pretty integral to the sound I've sought to achieve in my system. Since those were among the most threatened by the current situation, I made sure to grab my back ups before prices got out of hand/supply diminished.
I have a couple of questions about tubes in general that might fit in here. If not, maybe someone could suggest a thread to contribute to with these questions. First off, in the "old days" I had a pair of McIntosh MC240 amplifiers that in between mac clinics I would pull the tubes from and truck on down to the local pharmacy or Payless to their dusty little tube tester in a corner somewhere out of the store traffic pattern. I would diligently check the tubes and any that needed replacement, I would purchase right there from the cabinet next to the tester. These were typically run of the mill consumer grade tubes, Sylvania a lot but some RCA and others too. So my question here is: are those sort of "consumer" grade tubes now considered something "special"? Or are they bottom of the totem pole, better-than-nothing pieces? I used to think they sounded pretty good but never really had anything to compare them to, nor had I ever delved into which tubes might sound "better" than others, and there wasn't an internet to instantly look stuff like that up. So...were those tubes junk or are they now highly regarded, or somewhere in the middle. Nowadays (after foolishly offing my McIntosh amps when a buyer paying good cash came along) I am running a pair of custom monoblock Class A amplifiers that use KT88s (no brand I can see on the tube but I think the amp builder said they were Svetlana) and 6SN7s (Sylvania). I noticed a while ago that one of the KT88s was not lighting up, and one of the 6SN7s in the other amp was sensitive to touch, I think that might be called "microphony" or something like that, if you touch the tube with say a chopstick or wooden stick, you can hear a buzz or tone through the speaker connected to the amp. So, I thought I would buy some replacements and looked around and found Upscale Audio and kind of liked their schtick and bought four matched GoldLion KT88s (matched pair for each amplifier) and a pair of the 6SN7s (one to replace the noisy tube and the other to replace the same tube in the other amp just to keep them parallel). I thought prices were kind of high at 100 each for the KT88s and about a hundred for the pair of smaller tubes (from Kevin's (?) stash I believe they were hyped as). Have not received the small tubes yet; the KT88s sound nice, but have not really given them their due breakin yet. The question here is, did I pay way too much? Is there anything to US's hype about testing and matching and all the work they supposedly do to make sure you get good tubes? And most of all, are these expensive tubes really better (soundwise or maybe durability wise) than the old Sylvania I had from probably back in the 80s? Three of the four KT88s I replaced are probably fine as is at least one of the smaller tubes I will be replacing. Are the original tubes worth keeping? (I am assuming so) Are they sought after or just considered run of the mill old tubes? And can I expect great things from these new tubes or will the expectation be more like they will sound the same or worse than the tubes I replaced? Guess it boils down to: are "vintage" tubes always better than contemporary ones? I appreciate any guidance here since it has been a LONG time since I delved into the world of tube electronics other than just listening to my amps...I am firmly of the school of set it and forget it that was common amongst the McIntosh world of long ago as the tubes rarely went bad or burned out in my experience. Especially welcome would be honest reviews of the tubes I recently purchased, the company I purchased them from and/or any suggestions for future tube buys. Can one "trust" random vintage tube sellers on ebay? Do you think they actually test their tubes before selling them? And as for the old time tube testers, are they still around somewhere and if so, can they be trusted to give a good idea of the condition of a tube? Not the sound quality obviously but at least whether a tube needs replacing or not. Take a look at my profile if you want to see details on my system and photos of the amplifiers in question and their tube compliment and general build quality. I look forward to any responses and thanks in advance. jb
I don't know where to start, but you're correct about that microphonic tube. Those old (vintage) tubes are still very desirable; excellent sound and build quality. Those RCAs and Sylvanias are what tube folk are looking for. The manufacturers also built premium versions and different variants of said tubes. Have you been following the forums with regard to the state of the tube industry since Russia invaded Ukraine? Since so many modern tubes are manufactured in Russia, there became a supply chain shortage. Tube users rushed to buy up remaining stock from dealers, thus the low supply and the high prices. Upscale Audio is one of the best and most trustworthy dealers, but because of shortages he charged you double the price of a KT88 compared to last year. BTW, good choice selecting Gold Lion.
Oh yeah, most EBAY sellers are not to be trusted. Due diligence is needed to check for positive feedback, check the type of inventory they have. IOW, are they selling used tubes without boxes and no published test measurements or do they have vintage tubes in original boxes. Also be aware of the term NOS, it means New Old Stock. These were new tubes left over from back in the day and never used. There are very few legitimate NOS on the market and be wary of the Ebay sellers. Only the established dealers are likely to have any stock. And the average price of a good pair has jumped from about $200 to 4 or $500.
Thanks for that. I haven't been following the discussion on Ukraine situation but I am aware of the problems there and so it stands to reason there would be worry about any tube production in Russia since this country (USA) probably has some kind of sanctions on importing stuff from there. I am going to catch up on my reading here, starting in this thread from the beginning. But its good to hear that Upscale Audio has a commendable record and I kind of figured so since I hadn't come across anything other than positive comments on them. Also thanks for the knowledge on the vintage tube scene. I did know that manufacturers back then did have specialty tubes but typically I was looking for the lowest cost alternative and so just bought out of the cabinet there on site. Currently, I didn't really blink at the cost of their tubes, but I hadn't any real idea what a tube went for these days and since these seemed like kinda "boutique" tubes, I figured I was paying top dollar. Thanks again for the info and kind of confirming what I thought. I appreciate it. jb
You're most welcome and don't hesitate to ask questions and post new threads. There's a great community here.
Tubes might be the least of your problems if you're in Europe- there are contingency plans for the introduction of electricity supply rationing in some countries. Putin will likely stop the gas supply too. Time to invest in a hand cranked gramophone!
