Worth it for me Getting into Vinyl?

Another inconvenient truth!

 

Indeed , if an analogue recording sounds thin and unbalanced it is usually due to a different cutting angle used. Be aware that the recording could still be good.

One way to find out is to increase VTF, perhaps even temporarily (slightly) above the manufacturers given range. This increases SRA and if it is the different cutting angle causing the thin sound you should hear (a bit) more bass and mid now. If this is case you can adjust the VTA, usually by lowering the tone arm at base.

Slightly differing cutting angles are also the reason that cart manufacturers specify a VTF range to allow compensation for this, together with the fact that the SRA slightly changes with warm and humid conditions due to a change in elasticity in the cantilevers suspension.

 

Fresh interview with Mike Fremer, where he among other things talks about many reasons to get into vinyl:

 

A few years ago I was persuaded by YouTube entertainers to dust off my LP collection and take them for a spin again, which I had not done for over 30 years. That's because about 30 years ago I purchased a CD Player for snap, crackle, and pop free music and saw no more need to listen to music via LPs. But, having been told by the YouTube " vinyl experts" that vinyl was "way" better than CD, I though perhaps there had been some technology break-throughs in LPs and Turntable technology since I bought my Sony PS-4750 Turntable 45 years ago. Thus, I ordered a new Technics SL-1210GR, believing its feature set applied to some new vinyl would enhance my recorded music pleasure. I was wrong. In fact, the indulgence in LPs once again brought back memories of why I abandoned LPs for CDs in the first place. At any rate, I have no doubt my new TT with its Shure V15V-MR/Jico SAS is delivering everything in the groove because my LPs now sound virtually indistinguishable from CDs of same material; yet, that impression is sabotaged by the familiar snap, crackles, and pops also vying for my attention. So, is it worth getting into? I'd say yes if you want to digitize records inherited, that's got to be fun. But, since an Apple Music subscription can deliver virtually any music that has ever been recorded in the history of recorded music I don't think vinyl has any point today.

 

I did virtually the same thing, but I have come to a different conclusion. This is likely due to my looking at vinyl records as a hobby rather than just music to listen to.
Both ideas are great, but if you are using vinyl records just as a means to quickly hear music, you will be disappointed.
Vinyl records require time and effort ( maintenance, cleaning, care, etc...)
They can also require a lot of trial and error as not all equipment (turntables, cartridges, preamps, Amps) work well and sound good together. The sound you like may not be the sound that I like, etc...

After getting the new table, I don’t hear the sound I want and am now buying a different cartridge, and a new preamp. I’ll try each and A/B them...

I also purchased an ultrasonic record cleaner. After running my old albums through it, there are few distinguishable pops and cracks, even on 40 year old records.

Again for me it is a hobby, or a challenge. This is not what everyone wants and for them, they may not be interested in the process, and as such, streaming an/or CD may be a better option...

 

I agree whole heartedly. No doubt a significant part of my LP collection is about the over all experience. Only some of which has to do with the actual sound, pops, or crackles. Anyone who says they like LPs because of the pops and crackles is a bit suspect, IMO. And honestly, some LPs are just terrible. Whether it's the recording, production, mastering, or pressing, I doubt any table could get great sound out of some of these LPs. ...Again, part of the process.

Because of this experiential difference in formats it's obvious to me that many individuals would prefer one over the other. I enjoy it all and incorporate format into what I'm doing at the moment. But if someone is looking for good sound with the ultimate of convenience, LPs simply aren't for them.

 

The records are probably dirty/damaged. Clean records without snaps/crackles/pops are essential for vinyl listening enjoyment. Otherwise it's a waste of time and money. My huge record collection consists of clean, mostly pristine LPs and is a joy to listen to.

 

All depends on your analogue gear, whether you have a quality dedicated phono stage that can bring out the most in your cartridge (MM or MC). Also correct arm and cart alignment, azimuth, pivot to spindle distance required, etc etc. Many factors can determine how good your records will sound, including whether your records are damaged/dirty. I have all the set-up tools and do this stuff myself, and have done for decades. I don't trust some sales guy or so called tech at a store, despite how they can talk your ear off with mumbo jumbo. I've seen a lot of these guys make some huge mistakes with alignment/set-up.

After reading what you've said, I say you're lacking somewhere if you're still getting "snap crackle pops" from new vinyl. My analogue gear performs every bit as good as my DAC, Digital Media Player, or CD player, and in many cases better. Also, my records don't have "snap crackles or pops". I have records that are over 50 years old that play without, and are a beautiful enjoyable quiet listen. I have over 20,000 LP's within my collection, around 10,000 CD's, and another 50,000 or so digital files. When I really want to enjoy music, my turntable is my first choice.

 

Yes.

 

No

 

If, if, if! If pigs could fly, or if I just had a quality phono stage, if I had a correctly aligned cartridge, or if I had clean records, then I would be rewarded with some sort of vinyl playback ecstasy. That's the lie! The better the system the more it reveals record defect. I've got a great TT, an awesome cart, which is perfectly matched to my phono stage; and, in fact, the TT cart is properly aligned in all manner of adjustment; yet, most records still do not even come close to delivering the clear tone commonly presented from CDs.

 

Not dirty, and not damage. Defective, yes. And it's why I've stopped buying new LPs.

 

This is a really good point. Not long ago, I bought a Marantz TT530 for my son's use. This is an old linear arm table with its original cart. I tested it in my main system and played a couple records that I knew were a bit troublesome. They sounded really good. Then I pulled out the Marantz cart and popped in a spare AT450 which was made some time ago and has a nude elliptical stylus. Same records didn't sound so good. I put the original cart back in and gave it to him. He's one of those young people who've bought a few records on vinyl but don't really play them. It's a hipster doofus thing. At least he has a table if he wants to play them.

But your point is well taken, the better the system, the worse all but pristine records can sound. If I didn't have 500ish records already, I wouldn't pay a bit of attention to vinyl and all it entails.

 

Lol, then you have some serious problems. If I were you I'd address your analogue set-up, the condition/cleanliness of your LP's, etc. It seems something's not up to snuff. I can assure you, this isn't some big conspiracy or "lie". You sir are very misinformed

 

"Only some of which has to do with the actual sound"? Dude, it's all about the sound.

 

So if your records are are "defective"why are you dissing vinyl? Seems to me this is more your fault than it is the mediums. I buys used, from reputable dealers online, or brick and mortar stores. I rarely if ever have any issues. It's all about choices. Clearly you've made some bad ones when selecting your records. Not the mediums fault, but the buyers.

 

No not misinformed, highly informed, enough to see the problems in your argument. My system is magnificent for pleasure from LPs, CDs, multi-channel SACDs, as well as hi-res stereo and multi-channel downloads. Its capability reveals the limitation of LP in comparison and contrast to the other mediums.

That is total BS. My fault that new LPs I've purchased are defective? I don't think so. Defective new recordings are in fact the main reason why vinyl is dissed.

 

Your profile says you are using a V15mr. Is the stylus still in good shape? Have you tried new cartridges? (Honestly I don't care for MM cartridges any more. Once you go LOMC you realize that is where vinyl realy comes alive) You may need to look at your cart options and phonostage. Maybe audition some if you can.
Maybe its the dynamic range your prefer of the CD.
Its worth having both formats IMO. Vinyl tend to have better masterings vs CD. And sometimes the CD/SACD is better.

 

As I said, I buy used and rarely if ever have issues. Surely not worthy of going onto the internet and griping. There's a reason I don't buy new, and if I do it will always be Euro pressings. But buying new is a very rare occurrence. First rule...when buying used, don't buy crap US pressings. 2nd rule, if you're still having issues after following rule 1, then buy used. These things are within your control. I would say it's entirely your fault. Why does it take purchasing hundreds of new LP's to figure this out? Lol

 

I started getting back into vinyl about 2 years ago after not having owned any new records since I was a teenager several decades ago. I’m a tweaker/tinkerer and vinyl really scratches that itch. There’s always something for me to play with. New carts, new styli, slight adjustments to VTA, VTF, platter mat/no platter mat, etc. Annoys the heck out of my wife, but I love it. And my record washing routine soothes my OCD tendencies. For me, it’s an extension of my general AV hobby that makes me feel more connected to the music through physical contact with the equipment and media. My wife commented the other day how surprised she was that I’ve stuck with it this long. Honestly, I don’t see myself giving it up. I’m hooked.

 

I think you pretty much nailed it there.

 

For me it’s vinyl & hi res digital. Both sound better than CD IME.

 

overpriced and the frustration with new vinyl I would say a huge NO...

 

Maybe so but most used records I find I would consider totally unplayable from scratches, and if not, they are ridiculously overpriced.

 

I'm the extreme opposite. None of the used records that I find or buy have scratches. All are in NM near pristine condition, and in many cases mint. I'm very well connected and quite fortunate in this regard. Others can be too. You just have to build up a good reputable sellers list. I have many awesome sellers world wide. I also have some incredible brick and mortar stores where I live.