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Would Critics View KISS More Favorably If 'Phantom' Were A Blockbuster Hit Film?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by S. P. Honeybunch, Nov 30, 2019.

  1. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    And since then, you've gone on and on about how it derailed their commercial success as well.

    Keep moving those goalposts, hoss!
     
    JoeRockhead and Crawdad like this.
  2. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    He was prolific in the late 70s/early 80s! :shh:
     
    Crawdad likes this.
  3. Crawdad

    Crawdad Detroit Rock Citizen

    You know what? The whole autumn of 1978 had KISS jumping the shark. We're not talking about the Phantom movie alone, but the solo albums as well. It was a time when the handlers of the band just threw common sense out the window.
    I'm not saying there isn't great music on them, because their is, but the absolute truth is that releasing four individual albums was insanity.
     
  4. Crawdad

    Crawdad Detroit Rock Citizen

    Especially in the KISS camp.
     
  5. HfxBob

    HfxBob Forum Resident

    To me Kiss is the equivalent of rock candy, a musical confection.
     
  6. Jackstar74

    Jackstar74 Forum Resident

    Nope not at all. They'd only be the critics darlings if they had no makeup and were a lame ass punk band...
     
    The Space Ace, JoeRockhead and carlwm like this.
  7. Spaghettiows

    Spaghettiows Forum Resident

    Location:
    Silver Creek, NY
    The only way that the critics would have reacted favorably to KISS in 1978 would have been if they removed the makeup, the costumes and allowed Peter Criss to sing all of the songs in the style of Tom Waits. And no more lyrics about sexual conquest.
     
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  8. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Anecdotally, it was a turn-off for an 11-year-old Kiss fan.

    Kiss was my favorite band in 1978, and I'd have been all over a new album.

    As it was, I wanted the solo albums, but 4 overwhelmed my little brain. I guess I could've gotten one and then gone from there, but that felt like a cop-out! :D

    I doubt I was the only kid turned off by being asked to buy 4 new albums all at once, and they really did go nuts with merch around that time.

    Trading cards, dolls, lunchboxes, board games - you name it!

    Granted, the Beatles did the same thing in 1964, but that didn't damage their reputation because they were new. They had nothing to lose, and no one expected them to last.

    With Kiss, all this $$$ grubbing clearly alienated a lot of fans...
     
    carlwm likes this.
  9. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I am aware that the movie got bad reviews. But you stated that the film hurt the Bee Gees' "critical standing"... In other words, that it negatively affected how the critics viewed them and their subsequent music as a whole. I am asking if you have any evidence of this.
     
    JoeRockhead likes this.
  10. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    I remember the old joke being that those albums shipped platinum, but were returned double platinum...
     
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  11. Combination

    Combination Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans
    Apparently it was a situation where you'd walk into a record store, and the new arrivals rack would always have the solo albums filled to the brim...so it looked no one wanted them, even though they were selling decently! They just sent out entirely too many in advance, hence the self-congratulatory shipping platinum thing.
     
    czeskleba likes this.
  12. Crawdad

    Crawdad Detroit Rock Citizen

    I read somewhere that altogether they sold about the same as one normal KISS album.
     
  13. Combination

    Combination Forum Resident

    Location:
    New Orleans
    I don't think it was that bad, just not the usual sales.
     
  14. Crawdad

    Crawdad Detroit Rock Citizen

    I was a Facebook friend of a critic whose entire hate for KISS seemed to be based on one bad encounter with Gene Simmons ..
     
  15. Crawdad

    Crawdad Detroit Rock Citizen

    That's not bad. You're talking about 2 million in sales.
     
  16. mbd40

    mbd40 Steely Dan Fan

    Location:
    Hope, Ar
    Would critics view Ringo more favorably if Caveman were a blockbuster hit film?
     
    Comet01, ARK, Crawdad and 1 other person like this.
  17. Wally Swift

    Wally Swift Yo-Yoing where I will...

    Location:
    Brooklyn New York
    But I must be honest and admit......when I took my little brother to see them in 1979 because my parents made me I loved every minute of it! I had gotten off the KISS train after Alive II.
     
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  18. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Let's see... Robert Christgau stopped reviewing Ringo records after 1977's Ringo the Fourth, and Caveman came out in 1981. So yeah, clearly there is a direct correlation between the two events, just like with Kiss and their movie!
     
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  19. vonwegen

    vonwegen Forum Resident

    If only they had just included Scooby in the movie, that would've changed everything. "Ruh-roh, Gene! Better try some Listerine!"
     
  20. mando_dan

    mando_dan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Beverly, MA
    Yeah, they'd be right up there with Dylan....
     
  21. Crawdad

    Crawdad Detroit Rock Citizen

    Dylan wasn't doing all that great in 1978 either. JMO
     
    mando_dan likes this.
  22. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    It wasn't??? :eek:
     
  23. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Oh, I won't claim 11-year-old Oatsdad rebelled against Kiss's pursuit of $$$. If anything, I was resentful that they put out so much merch because I wanted to buy all of it! :D

    I bailed on Kiss pretty much entirely by early 1979. Can't really explain what happened through 1978 or why I didn't get any of the solo albums - IIRC I wanted them so I don't know why I skipped them all.

    At the risk of being a forum cliche, I got into the Beatles around March 1979 and that was it for Kiss and me. I think I maintained vestigial interest but I didn't buy "Dynasty" - or anything else they released after that.

    As a 12-year-old in 1979, money for records was scarce, and almost every penny I earned went to Beatles!
     
    Wally Swift likes this.
  24. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    It looks like Robert Christgau has stopped reviewing Dylan albums (nothing since 2012). Presumably he's done this because Renaldo and Clara was poorly received and unsuccessful, causing Dylan to lose cachet.
     
    Comet01, Crawdad and Oatsdad like this.
  25. lesterbangs

    lesterbangs Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern Indiana
    Was the way that you used the spelled this word intentionally punny?
     

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