Yet another CD vs High-Res streaming comment

A lot of players "up-rez," which can have mixed, but sometimes interesting results.

 

As said above, mastering is key. If I had to choose between a cd with a good master and at least decent dynamic range compared to a hi res transfer of the same album but is compressed and jacked up, I will choose the cd every time. The compression and jacked up volume ruins the whole purpose of using the hi res format since it’s clipping off information that is gone once it’s gone and no higher format can bring that part of the music back.

 

There are some hi res transfers that either have no added compression, or subtle compression that sound amazing! My favorites being the Van Halen 2015 192/24. The 96/24 ones are still compressed like the cds were.

 

I just received Roger waters "amused to death" on CD, and there's so much more dimensionality and dynamics compared to the tidal stream.
I play my CD s on an old Sony DVD player, which inputs 16/44.1 to my ps audio stellar gain cell via toslink.
Streaming comes from the Nvidia shield into the gain cell via USB, same 16/44.1.
The Nvidia shield has the capability to upsample to 24/96, but there's nothing to gain from it.

 

There is no difference between Hi-rez and CD there both lossless besides that the human ear cannot really perceive anything above 20khz. Others might say there is..

 

Prolly mastering, but I know sh!t!~

 

The difference is in the harmonics with the full frequency spectrum allowed in hi res as compared to the cutoff on red book standard. There is a slight timbre to the airiness, but whether one can notice that or hear it is a case by case basis.

 

I'm not saying this is the cause of what you're hearing or not, but likely you're taking the output from the nVidia via asynchronous USB and the DAC clock is governing, vs. the CD player vs. toslink in which the CD player clock is governing. Not sure either if you're doing a bit perfect transfer or if you're going through an Android audio stack with the nVidia. I don' t now anything about that device. Just suggesting that it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison.

 

So of those case by case basis what do the numbers say....? do you know ? I can't hear a difference can you ?

 

Well, when the recording is holding peaks up in the 30-50khz area, there is a subtle difference. It might take some time to notice these subtleties, or you might not, which in your case means you don’t have to waste your time or money with anything more than redbook. Just because you can’t hear it, doesn’t mean others can’t. Everyone’s hearing and perceptions of sound are different.

 

I did not ask you about my hearing capabilities I asked you if "you" you can hear a difference" ? Hearing diminishes with age you do know that or is that a case by case basis as well...

 

Yes, that's probably the case. I am looking for a better streamer than the Nvidia... For now that's all I have, which isn't too bad.

 

Yes, I can hear the difference and am also 28 with good hearing. But please, keep your old man knows everything bravado up when I’m just trying to be helpful.

 

It may be perfectly good, I don't know the unit. All I'm saying it's if you're going to do comparisons you need to get it down to one variable -- streaming as the source vs. CD as the source, to be able to attribute the difference you're hearing to the fact of the different source. But you've got different clocks, different transmission technologies (usb vs. optical, including different input receivers at the DAC for those), and maybe even something going through the Android audio stack from the nVidia, I dunno (running USB audio from an android phone in a way that bypasses the Android audio stack requires some software, maybe the nVidia is designed to do that). These differences may or may not make much of a sonic difference, but it's hard to know what's the difference maker without making sure you've got it down to a single variable for comparison.

 

Jitter can make a huge difference in playback quality. If your bluray player outputs a lower jitter stream to your DAC than does your streaming device, this would explain your experience.

 

I agree. My take on it is that a sound or frequency you cannot hear might affect those that you can. I was 100% skeptical about any difference until I actually listened. But as you note, YMMV.

 

I think most of that is much ado about nothing, unless you're listening to modern native digital recordings made with super high bandwidth mics, and your speakers have response out to those kinds of frequencies.

Sure, some instruments like cymbals and muted trumpets and things like that have harmonic content way up in the ultrasonic range. And transients theoretically have energy at all frequencies. But, you know, if you're listening to the classic recordings made of horns and cymbals etc. with old RCA ribbon mics (as is a classic combo) or vocals cut with a Neumann U-87, or guitars recorded with a Shure SM-57 -- the frequency response of those classic mic are rolling off enormously above 10kHz. They're not encoding any 30kHz or 50kHz info on tape. All you're getting is noise up there if you're getting anything at all. If you want to listen to some of say the new Channel Classics direct DSD recordings made today with some wide bandwidth mics that are reasonably flat out to 30 or 50 kHz, then yeah, maybe recorded information up there is impacting what you hear. (Personally, I'm pretty good for my age, but if I test, I'm only good with noise up to 12 or 13kHz and with sine tones up to 15 to 17kHz). But if you're talking about older recordings or recordings make with some of those classic mics, etc., if you're hearing differences with hi-res digital, it's not likely because of ultrasonic content in the recording.

 

YES! I've listened to this a few times, and it is one of the most informative sources of real information I've ever experienced on digital recordings. Especially love his point on high res: If it wasn't recorded in high res, it will NEVER be high res. A potentially invaluable—and money-saving—interview!

 

If you can't hear the 19 kHz whine on Eric Clapton's "Wonderful Tonight" or the 16 kHz Morse Code on Mike Oldfield's "Tubular Bells", then your hearing isn't "hi-res".

 

My experience is that from CD (quality) upwards it’s not the format that matters, it’s the mastering. YMMV.

 

I've become more and more suspicious that hi-res formats are any better than redbook CDs. I'm not going to make any definitive statements about that, but I really think mastering and the DAC are much more important, and I have yet to hear any definitive evidence that a higher resolution is an improvement. Since I got my Denafrips Ares II I've been playing all of my dual-layer SACDs in my CD player so I can run them through the DAC. They sound better to me that way.

Of course, I'm an old man with diminished hearing and mild tinnitus that comes and goes, so don't listen to me.

 

People forget that a stream goes through numerous devices of unknown quality and may be a different mastering than the CD. I think John Darko who spends most of his reviewing time on streaming devices found CDs sound better.

 

There's a 19khz whine on "Wonderful Tonight"? Interesting. I can't hear it, with informal testing I can only hear to ~17khz. I wonder how much information I am missing in typical recordings! On my system and ears, if the mastering is equal, I CANNOT hear any difference between hi res and redbook. I can delude myself in thinking I can, but pretty sure I'd fail any sort of blind test. Also, if I'm using the same master and DAC (just use my Oppo as transport into my RME) I can't hear a difference between streaming and a CD.

 

Ive noticed this as well. A couple of years ago I hooked up an old CD player to my DAC and compared it to streaming on Tidal through my Pi2AES. In general I preferred the sound of the CDs. They just seemed more fluid and natural. Maybe a touch of warmth. Both were run through the same DAC. Funny thing was that the CD player was a crappy old HK carousel player that triggered the "buy better gear" light on my Yggdrasil. So the jitter on the CD player was high. I've been anxiously waiting for the Schiit transport to come out since then.

I can't explain it. But I also noticed that Qobuz generally sounds better than Tidal. Ive since ditched Tidal. And I've even noticed slight differences in sound depending on which distro I use on my Raspberry Pi, but to a lesser degree.

I love it though when the wife asks what I did to the stereo when I didn't even mention that I had changed something. That's generally a good sign I'm not imagining something.

 

I believe the TIDAL "Amused To Death" is one of their MQA "Master" streams right? Sadly, it looks like the 16/44.1 stream also uses that MQA version just bit-depth reduced and possibly downsampled.

As others have said, mastering makes all the difference so unless we know we're comparing "apples to apples" with the CD vs. what's being streamed, and then any other processing possibly being done (like the MQA decoding stuff), then we don't know what's really going on.

A CD rip, put on a server computer over the network, and then streamed to the same DAC would more than likely sound just as good as the CD player (assuming of course the CD and streamer both maintain bit-perfection). Jitter plays a minuscule part in sound quality these days unless you have horrific amounts (very unlikely)!