Dismiss Notice
We are rebuilding the search index and other forum caches this morning. Search results may not appear correct until indexing has completed, and the forum may respond a little slower than normal until this has finished.

Your Vinyl Transfer Workflow (sharing best needledrop practices)*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Vocalpoint, May 11, 2011.

  1. Grant

    Grant Senior Member

    Location:
    United States
    Quality sample rate conversion has gotten quite transparent over the last several years, so going from 96k > 44.1k shouldn't really be an issue, but there are those who insist on using 88.2 before converting to 44.1. It's always best to do your own testing to hear what works best for you.
     
    ghost rider and john morris like this.
  2. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    The program is visual analyzer Download

    Another reason I'm glad I stuck with 24/96. If you ever drop audio files in video editing software for the most part your choices will be 48, 96, 192. I started goproing mountain bike rides I use "TMPGEnc video authoring" software I can create multiple audio tracks track one is ride noise 2 is a 24/96 needle drop and 3 is a 5.1 mix of the two. I would guess 88.2 would get up converted to 96. I think its pretty cool but I'm sure I'm the only one that thinks so. I cut a 2.5 hour ride into multiple videos. If a record is 38:15 I cut the 1080 video to 38:20 and put in all the track marks. I encode the video at the highest bitrate to get the best quality and keep the files or burn it to a BD25 disc if I want to give it to somebody.
     
    arisinwind and BendBound like this.
  3. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    The infamous 1981, Sony DASH PCM 3324 recorder had a maximum recording frequency of 21 700 hz.


    For those who are curious.....

    Sony PCM 3324 $150 000 USD (1981) 24 tracks of 16 /44.1/48 on 1/2 inch DASH tape.
    The 3324A and 3324S are similar.

    Sony PCM 3348 $250 000 USD (1988)
    48 tracks of 16/44.1/48 on 1/2 inch DASH tape.

    Sony PCM 3348 HR $250 000 (1992)
    48 tracks of 24/48 on 1/2 inch DASH tape

    Mitsubishi X-850 $154 000 USD (1985)
    32 tracks of 16/44.1/48 on 1 inch DASH tape.

    Back in 1981 most analog 24 tracks were around
    $25 000 USD. only top Pro studios could afford digital recorders.
     
  4. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Agreed. You have go out of your way to buy a bad ADC / DAC. Back in 2003 it was a different story. The quality you can get from a $300 ADC now would cost you $5 000 back in 1997.
     
  5. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Never do EQ on headphones. Unless you plan to only use cans.
     
    arisinwind likes this.
  6. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    Best advice. And this is my mastering philosophy - LESS IS MORE. Have you seen all the junk in a professional mastering studio? Looks silly! I don't care what anyone says. You can't run your source through all those electronics without it adversely affecting the sound quality. Why does AC and DCC CDs sound so good? Because Steve doesn't run his songs through millions of output gear. And what he does is before the ADC.

    • I try to explain why many of those 1980's compact disks sound so light and lame. Back in the day everytime you added new information you had to make a new 3/4 inch tape. Some EQ - NEW TAPE. Some removal of pops and clicks - NEW TAPE.
    • Adding of sub code data for track numbers - NEW TAPE. This is why Steve did all of his fades, Eq and whatever before the ADC. So he only had to make another tape when he adds the track number data, thereby keeping his generation count down to 2 tapes.
    You should do the same. Low and high passing. Manual declicking. Avoid EQ unless the album aicks and blows majorly. Normalize to - 0.1 dbfs.
    Hum removal if necessary. Avoid anything else. The more you pile on the more it will destroy the precious sound of you vinyl.

    They are exceptions. For example some albums are bright and bass shy. But if you do too much it will change the sound of the album. Avoid any EQ movements more than + 3 db. Stick to low Qs such as 1. Avoid high Qs such as 5 or 10. Try and equalize with a quality constant Q Pro graphic EQ before the ADC. If you are doing a +8 db @ 100 hz @ a Q of 1 that is too much. Don't do EQ changes on headphones. Even a 1986, Realistic 10 band graphic equalizer will be good.
     
  7. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario


    I personal recommend to anyone the Izotope’s Ozone product. If you have l a mix or an album that is unbalanced. As is bass shy and overly bright this software will fix this. And it will never do too much.
     
    ghost rider likes this.
  8. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    True. Back in the 1982 - 1995 period this was a real big issue. Today not so. But for best sound when going down to 44.1 khz recording at 88.2 or 176.4 is still the best choice. When you hear people saying that the high definition files sounds better than the CD you can be assured that a 96 or 192 khz sample rate had a lot to do with it. Agreed, your 16/44.1 CD will not sound bad because the original file was at 192 or 96 khz. But for 16/44.1 files that sounds closer to the high definition file, 88.2 and 176.4 khz is still in my professional opinion one's best choice.
     
    ghost rider likes this.
  9. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    For video keep your audio at 48, 96 or 192 khz.
     
    ghost rider likes this.
  10. BendBound

    BendBound Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bend, OR
    How is this performed in IzotopeRX7?

    Everything else you note I do.

    I rather like the routine BrilliantBob suggests. He applies a -85dB white noise signal from Signal Generator to a track he is working on. Then he samples the noise present in 5± seconds of dead space on the vinyl. After making some decisions, he uses Spectral De-Noise on the track, that also removes the applied signal generated. If I am reading you correctly, you think such a step should only be done as a last resort.

    Even on a new record, I hear track noise that is dynamic. What I mean by that is what I hear on the lead in track of a side is different from what I hear on the lead out of the final track. Furthermore, the noise I hear between each track is different, typically quieter. I have applied BrilliantBob's suggestion to recent dubs and been pleased with the results. I'm sure some alteration of the fidelity of the entire track has been made, but I rather prefer the final product for general listening. No doubt, there is a trade off. While I have no experience compared to what you have, I agree completely with the philosophy of less is more.
     
  11. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Something like this I guess. I don't bother with either anymore just declick denoise and normalize to .3
    [​IMG]
     
    BendBound likes this.
  12. Here is the way I do it using RX. Use the EQ function. Set it to "ANALOG" (top left section). Under the graphic are HP Band 1 etc. HP is High Pass, LP is Low Pass. Select HP. Select "Brickwall". Move the blue circle with a curve line (far left on the graphic) until it reads 20Hz or whatever you want the low end to start at. On this graphic it is set to 29Hz. Then select LP. Select "Brickwall". Move the blue circle (far right on the graphic) to where you want the high end to end. Preview. Adjust. Preview. Tweak. Preview. Render.

    [​IMG]
     
    BendBound likes this.
  13. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    For those who wonder. You can get an SSL Super analog 44 input, 4 bus out board for $19 000. And it fits nicely on the kitchen table. What board back in the 1980's could handle 96 tracks? The legendary SSL 4098 G / G+. Over million it went for. If you can find one used in good condition it will run you $250 000. And all the automation moves are stored on 3 1/2 inch floppy disks so enjoy yourself. Aren't you glad we have ITB mixing. The average track count today is 100 tracks. Back in 1988 it used to be 48. Plus 8 Aux/Effect Sends of course. More like 56 channels. Fun!!
     
  14. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    Nice but a little overkill for needle drops, you think?
     
    john morris and Grant like this.
  15. john morris

    john morris Everybody's Favorite Quadron

    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario

    Mmmmm......Yea.
     
    ghost rider likes this.
  16. Stan94

    Stan94 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Paris, France
    It seems that the left channel is 2db louder than the right channel in my recordings. Using the Mixing feature of RX, by how many % do I need to correct the left channel in order to equal the right?
     
  17. mantis4tons

    mantis4tons Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO, USA
    Azimuth is a better function for that purpose IMO.
     
  18. Grant

    Grant Senior Member

    Location:
    United States
    Azimuth correction is used for timing errors between channels, not level mismatches.
     

  19. Make adjustments and use the meter at the bottom of the screen to match left and right
     
    Grant likes this.
  20. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    I have been under the impression that if all your records are off then it is likely that the azimuth needs adjusting, not for a few. I was planning to re look at mine. I have been seeing the left channel is one tick higher on several recent records. It is likely how it was mastered. It's hard being a perfectionist.
     
    arisinwind likes this.
  21. Grant

    Grant Senior Member

    Location:
    United States
    But, it would be better to do that by adjust the L or R gain or physically re-aligning your cart.
     
  22. mantis4tons

    mantis4tons Forum Resident

    Location:
    Denver, CO, USA
    I specifically meant the "Azimuth" function in RX, which lets you modify the levels by channel in addition to setting a sample delay to address timing mismatches.
     
    ghost rider and Grant like this.
  23. ghost rider

    ghost rider Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago
    I never used it. I don't even recall it being there but I see it now. Not sure when or how I would know to use it. When I adjust levels I just use the gain maybe +1 or even+0.5 to the whole album.
     
  24. JohnO

    JohnO Forum Resident

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Try -37 percent. (Minus thirty-seven percent.)
     
  25. Grant

    Grant Senior Member

    Location:
    United States
    People mostly think of using it with tape sources there the head isn't perfectly aligned which would cause phase problems, which would also cause the channels to be out of balance.
     
    ghost rider and john morris like this.

Share This Page