Your Vinyl Transfer Workflow (sharing best needledrop practices)*

I stand by my statement, I have thousands of records without clicks, we can agree to differ and both be happy with our different approaches.

 

Nonetheless, it is what I have to work with (or find a workaround for). In retrospect I would have been better off doing more research before the purchase, but at this point I am left trying to do the best with what I have.

Do you have any opinion on how a passive volume attenuator is likely to work with a mV level signal?

Or conversely, just how much damage is dropping the level by 50% in the digital domain doing? Is the software simply dropping one bit of data. I record at 24 bits; I could live with 23 just fine.

Understand that while there are many well healed veterens and professionals here, there is also a large contingent of amatures looking to learn to do things as well as we can.

Thanks in advance.

 

Those all sound very nice, and the amount of surface noise is very low in general. I do hear a slight amount of clicks and pops during low level passages on a couple of them, but not really enough to detract from the music, even when listening through headphones. Whether they would benefit from being de-clicked or not would be a judgment call and a mater of personal preference. For myself, I would not consider it necessary in these cases. Cool music!

 

I tried to explain why in Post 56. Not sure if it's actually why that happens though.

 

I am with pbthal on this one. I have my doubts that there exists any vinyl record in the world that is totally click-free. Just because one is not "sensitive" to small clicks does not mean the clicks aren't there. The noise is an inherent property of the format itself.

 

I didn't hear any pops but there are several clicks on each track. Did they bother me?...if I were listening at moderate to high volume I would notice them. If you told me I could remove them with a little effort, I would for sure.

Cool music BTW. Thanks for posting.

Rick

 

Well said.

 

So if it is the reconstruction filter reversing the polarity it is doing it in the DAC. Which would mean the recording is the same as the source material.

From listening it seemed to be happening during playback.

Regards,
Todd

 

Hi jfall,

Understood, though my best recommendation would be to put it on eBay and replace it.

I'm not so sure a passive attenuator will work very well with a mV level signal. Personally, I think it only doubles the damage done by recording at the wrong level.

With decent software (important) and a 24-bit source, there is no damage at all to changing the level of a file. However, a key factor here is that any change after digitization cannot fix the damage done by the initial, too loud digitization. So the question becomes, is there anything to be gained by a level adjustment at this point? The increased distortion every A-D chip in my experience will suffer with levels exceeding -6, cannot be undone.

Also understood. But properly designed digital gear is not necessarily the exclusive domain of the professional or the veteran audio hobbyist. One can get good design without spending anything close to state-of-the-art prices. Just as one can purchase a decent, safe car with good brakes, without having to spend the price of a Lambourghini. They just have to make sure the car comes with brakes before paying. ;-}

So, in such cases, I think the best thing an amateur audio recordist can learn is to insist that any recording device they'd pay anything more than $1 for has input level controls (before the A-D conversion) and delivers correct polarity, i.e. matching the input, from simple recordings. This will lead to the disappearance of devices that don't have these basic functions and will thus benefit everyone.
(Note that brakes are now standard equipment on all cars. ;-})

What I am saying is that if the recording device is inherently going to work outside of its area of lowest distortion, there is nothing to learn that will fix the results. All that can be learned is how to select its replacement.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

If it's happening during playback only then it would be in the D/A-C but if its happening only during recording then it could be an active nyquist low-pass filter that's doing it right at the input of the A/D-C. Same concept. The engineers probably just forgot to add an inverter into the system.

 

I really don't hear several clicks on each track, there may be some very slight surface noise, but clicks no, at least not what I would call clicks, naturally it's all a matter of taste, but I worry that you guys may be removing some of the ambience and information with all your processsing, just a thought.

 

Do you think the rest of us don't listen and make comparisons? Have you ever listened to some of the clips posted in the ongoing post your needledrops thread? Some people have even posted before and after de-clicking comparison clips in those threads.

 

Not having any interest in processing my needledrops I haven't read those threads, obviously I assume you listen to what you are doing at each stage and compare it, I just think that some of you seem to have a zero tolerance for anything that may be considered noise and it would be easy to throw the baby out with the bath water, I'm not attacking your approach I just feel differently from you.

As some of my needledrops have been commercially released I have copies that have been professionally mastered and they sound excellent and better than my straight transfers, but do they sound like vinyl, not really and am I happy with a 24/192 transfer without any processing yes, that's my choice, I just don't have much interest in playing with software. Maybe one day I'll discover some software and start cleaning up all my recordings, I have the DSD files saved, who knows, but until then I'm content with my straight recordings.

 

So what do you seasoned pro's / serious hobbyist do to clean up the surface noise that is inherent to vinyl. I'm not talking pops and clicks, but the background noise/hiss?

 

I know that already. I was answering to someone who didn't understand how you weren't forced to go redbook if making your own needledrops...unless you use a standalone recorder. Then, you may not be able to, depending on the recorder's capabilities.

 

See how anal we are?

 

There are people who have lots of surface noise, yet think the vinyl is clean and quiet.

 

No, we aren't. If we're that meticulous about it, we know the difference. I mean, we are really listening intently!

 

I dont run any NR across an entire file. I will use the selection tool/lasso tool in spectral view and apply some declick/decrackle presets I have come up with or some hiss reduction. For "vinyl rumble I may sum the low frequencies in the non-musical gap between songs

 

What can we tell from MP3 files transfered from vinyl?
Its not surface noise per se, but.
Intermodulation distortion and poor channel separation for a start.
I just can't comprehend this hobby.
Its like lace making, unneeded on this voyage.
78rpm restoration I understand
Vinyl to Digital ,only in extremis, only if the master has gone AWOL.imho

 

I guess some folks..like me...prefer to hear their favorite music sounding good as opposed to 3rd rate CD's mastered from dubious sources. If you like being force fed subpar sounding music then by all means huddle with the masses. Good luck getting Paul mcCartney Ram in mono or how about the Doors Strange Days in mono, got those in your CD rack? ZZ Top..boy those CD's sure do sound awesome dont they.....not.

 

Here's a clip from a recent needledrop I did. It's Laurie Anderson's "From The Air" from her Big Science LP mastered by Bob Ludwig, first 30 seconds. First clip is before running through Click Repair, second clip is after. It's not a particularly noisy LP. I ran it through Click Repair with a setting of "12" (out of 100). You can decide for yourself if the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater.

https://rcpt.yousendit.com/1120283641/2dd5347c6a01fc8f70dce9d7694befc9

 

Luckily not on my hit list..

I don't buy 3rd rate.

 

Baby is intact
But so is surface noise
My cd is cleaner,wider and more dynamic.
Art is in the ear of the beholder.

 

Strangely I would call that a noisy LP and would say you could dial up the noise reduction some more, though I'd agree that you haven't thrown any babies out.

Thanks for the example.