Zappa 71 Complete Fillmore Shows Coming

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by rockin_since_58, Jan 13, 2022.

  1. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    I'm not totally sure about edits and things like that. Surely you could take the raw takes themselve and put them in album order, but I don't think it would match the original that much. I could be wrong though. :)

    For what it's worth, though I have the box set, I found it was pretty good to combine the original FE album with the many FE tracks included on the Playground Psychotics set for an "Extended Official Fillmore East 71" compilation.

    Not a box set but about twice as long as the original, lol. It's good listening. :)
     
    englishbob and trumpet sounds like this.
  2. Echoes71

    Echoes71 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maine
    I think it would be very tricky (i.e. near impossible) to replicate/cannibalize a version of the original album from the box. As I listened to the box, I could hear lines taken from one show, then snippets from another, so it’s clear that FZ did a healthy amount of splicing (no big surprise there). A Zappa fanatic needs it all; a casual fan should be Ok with the original album. If you already have the box and love it, then I highly recommend tracking down the original. If you’ve got more than you need with the box, then there ya go!
     
  3. Elmer McMuffin

    Elmer McMuffin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    In theory, but listening to any complete show from this tour, you realise that FZ must have spent a very intense, significant amount of time trimming off every single bit of fat from the takes he used, mixing in whatever he found funny, chopping out bits of banter, whole, significant and even tiny sections of songs, such that Fillmore East 71 is like a whole cake reduced to a lozenge. It's an intensified sugar rush of a thing compared to the far more organic and flowing show. I must say I love and enjoy both.
     
  4. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Exactly! Like with Roxy and that box set, the original FE71 album is still a unique and enjoyable album on its own. :)
     
  5. Elmer McMuffin

    Elmer McMuffin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    His judgement was spot on as well - at least until his hearing started to play tricks. I love late 78-80 shows, but BOY do I love Tinseltown and Sheik Yerbouti! All meat, no fat.
     
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  6. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    You could do it but you'd need to be good with a WAV editing program. This page lists which parts of the box set versions match the album: Fillmore East—June, 1971: Notes & Comments
     
  7. ODShowtime

    ODShowtime jaded faded

    Location:
    Tampa
    In addition to what others have said, the original album mix has the spook on it. The box set mixes are crystal clear modern magic. Both have their place.

    The OG album is iconic, and the re-issue of the album that came along with the box set is excellent. I recommend it.
     
  8. folkfreak

    folkfreak The cold blooded penguin

    Location:
    Germany
    To be precise: no, as it was overdubbed and tinkered with in the studio....
     
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  9. Uncle_Meat

    Uncle_Meat Forum Resident

    Location:
    Plymouth, UK
    Hearing the whole shows made me have a complete reassessment of that band. We only got to hear what Frank wanted us to hear with the original release and that really isn’t the full truth.

    I really prefer the mixes on the box against Zappa’s original and I feel like the full shows truly represent a really strong band. Can’t help but wonder what would have happened had the stage assault not occurred.
     
  10. Gray Beard

    Gray Beard Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southern NJ
    Totally agree here about the mix and the band. The original 71 mix always sounded dirty, dark and murky to me, certainly not up to par with the acoustics the Fillmore could offer. And then the album itself is so short and concise that only mere moments of the band’s brilliance show through. In the full box the dirty mix is gone and the Fillmore ambiance is restored. And then the band, the band is just as powerful musically as any of his other groupings, and you get to hear how fluently they change up time signatures, rhythms and vibe. A lot of that may be due to Aynsley who is really driving the band.
     
  11. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    After hearing the box I think it's a shame that the Fillmore "King Kong"s were locked in the vault for 50 years (except for the Don Preston bit from the album, and the John/Yoko version). Some great playing there from Aynsley in particular as well as FZ, Ian and Bob Harris.
     
  12. Elmer McMuffin

    Elmer McMuffin Forum Resident

    Location:
    Oxfordshire
    Agree. And yet I can understand many of his original choices - he really was condensing, maximising, working with the optimal LP length and wanted the album to really stand out from other music you might have been playing. Now he has a captured and committed long term fanbase who know what they're getting. So a more relaxed mix of less dense music and comedy is very welcome and is something to savour. But I'm a long way from kissing goodbye to my white album with the pencil on the front.
     
  13. ODShowtime

    ODShowtime jaded faded

    Location:
    Tampa
    The mudshark and bwana dik come off way better on the original album and they are the highlights to me.

    Because I'm a degenerate.
     
  14. bluesbro

    bluesbro Forum Hall of Shame

    Location:
    DC
    The mixes are different, it would not sound the same
     
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  15. Echoes71

    Echoes71 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maine
    “The spook” - yes, that’s it!! As much as I love the crystal clear sound of the box, it’s that grimy, muddy sound of the original album that I fell in love with when I first heard it in high school. The mix just adds to the sleazy ambience of the narrative that unfolds.
     
  16. warewolf95

    warewolf95 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Greenville, SC
    Thank christ for that site. I found it back in 2009 or so when I got into Frank and all these years later I still visit it regularly for information. Incredible, incredible resource.
     
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  17. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Absolutely. I've been using both IINK and the Zappa Patio site for more than 20 years now. Invaluable resources. A treasure for us Zappasick fans.
     
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  18. folkfreak

    folkfreak The cold blooded penguin

    Location:
    Germany
    Can someone please help to understand the "wa wa wa nice ladies reference" to Jerry Lewis in Billy the mountain?
     
  19. Zappateer

    Zappateer Forum Resident

    It is a parody on how he spoke in the Martin and Lewis comedies.
     
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  20. folkfreak

    folkfreak The cold blooded penguin

    Location:
    Germany
    Ah thank you. That was before my time.
    I thought there might have been a scandal with some ladies involved...
     
  21. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    I saw Weird Al in July and he included "wa wa wa nice lady" in the "Yoda Chant" at the end of the show.
     
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  22. Sarakenidis Nikolaos

    Sarakenidis Nikolaos Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    Have you guys reached a consensus as to which BTM version is the best from the 8CD set?
     
  23. Motown Syd

    Motown Syd Ford Tough

    Location:
    Detroit
    I must have this box set !
     
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  24. pbuzby

    pbuzby Senior Member

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    Not sure about the entire piece but the first Fillmore show has the best Zappa guitar solo. It was the one he picked for the version included on the 3 LP set.

    The version from the "hybrid" show recorded on four track is more experimental in that section than any of the Fillmore versions.
     
  25. Sarakenidis Nikolaos

    Sarakenidis Nikolaos Forum Resident

    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    Yeah. I'm not the kind of guy that chooses takes according to solos. I cannot decide to save my life what version to put on a playlist I'm curating. I have space for 3 BTMs - yes the playlist is criminally long - and the one is for sure the Carnegie Melon. I have the Playground one at the moment and I'm pondering on whether to drop it for 2 versions from this set or keep it and choose one from the set. First World Problems. The King Kong's I've managed to nail. But the BTMs give me a - pleasant - headache.
     
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