Interesting All-in-One Ultrasonic Cleaner - HumminGuru

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Joe Spivey, Dec 4, 2020.

  1. Joe Spivey

    Joe Spivey Your friendly neighborhood Spivey-Man Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    I agree that would be helpful. I'd like to see more detailed photos/videos too.

    I found this photo if it helps. Seems it's supported by at least one roller and I presume another on the other side. They did add a few FAQs in the campaign stating it wouldn't support 220g records either.

    [​IMG]
     
    Andrea_Bellucci and Shawn like this.
  2. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    Jewelry cleaning ultrasonic tanks are compact with 50-75 watts power, 40 kHz and quiet. But, you need power to clean the record because there is a lot of surface area. But, to get the sound levels and thermal load as low as they are specifying at 40kHz, in that compact machine, even a 100W into only 350mL of water can be a thermal management challenge. The Degritter uses 300W and 120kHz into 1400 mL. As far as 40khz being above the hearing level - that actually may not be true - there are on-going studies in industry to monitor for the medical effects from ultrasonic tanks. But, if this device is only going to use a total of 50W transducer(s), that is similar to small jewelry UT cleaners that you can buy for $30, not much noise there.

    I am familiar with these pumps (the company specifies MTBF) and the fish tank pumps, but have you seen the pump curve for these pumps - very low head. One of the best compact centrifugal pumps with decent flow (1 gpm/min) and head (5M) is this pump - BLDC PUMP DC40. But, this pump like most of these DC powered pumps requires a DC power supply -and yes DC power supplies are not expensive - but they take up space. But, this is all inconsequential because they are not going to use a pump. The user will manual refill every time and this simplifies the design.

    Yes, all the parts can be obtained relatively cheaply - just as those low cost Chinese ultrasonic tanks. But, what will be the performance and the reliability - if the unit only cleans mediocre and breaks in a year - customers are not going to be happy. Customer expectation for this device could be very high. The Degritter folks have modified their operating software a number of times, and have been acknowledged with great customer service. Fans may be cheap, but you would be surprised how difficult it can be to get the air flow right - I have seen some experienced companies get it wrong even while assisted with computational fluid dynamics programs. Yes, the company has manufacturing facilities - but their expertise is toys - check the company's web sites. This item is unlike any I have seen shown on their web sites. Not that they cannot do it; they can always hire the necessary intellectual horsepower. Exterior CAD models and even skin models are easily produced with 3D rapid prototyping - but arranging all the interior parts is something else entirely. They specify a noise level, which would imply they have a functioning prototype or it is just a goal. Like I said, they have quite a challenge.
     
  3. Joe Spivey

    Joe Spivey Your friendly neighborhood Spivey-Man Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Found this on YouTube

     
  4. neubian

    neubian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Apison, TN
    I have the Degritter all in one ultrasonic RCM (they started from Indiegogo I think). This machine is similar in concept, but a lot cheaper. It would be nice if it actually succeeds.
     
    Joe Spivey likes this.
  5. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    Nothing beats an operating prototype.
     
    Joe Spivey likes this.
  6. arem

    arem Forum Resident

    Just to make things clear, when you back a project on Kickstarter you do stand a chance of losing your money once it is taken from your account. A few years ago I backed a project that crushed it’s projected backing, to the point that the creators were never able to solve the logistical problem of producing and delivering everything they promised, so they delivered nothing and kept the money. My pledge was only 40 dollars IIRC so in the end I was mad but it wasn’t worth freaking out or taking legal measures. This project seems to have the logistics figured out to deliver as promised and I hope the machine is good, but I’m not in immediate need so I’m going to wait and see on this.
     
    Andrea_Bellucci likes this.
  7. Joe Spivey

    Joe Spivey Your friendly neighborhood Spivey-Man Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    That stinks. What was the project? Were they able to refund any money? Apparently that happens sometimes if they can’t deliver.
     
  8. Phil Thien

    Phil Thien Forum Resident

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Having tried albums that were ultrasonically cleaned, as well as watching numerous before/after videos on youtube, well, I'm not that impressed.

    For used vinyl that is really filthy, I'd like something like a Knosti or equivalent (with brushes not pads) that has a motor and which I can leave an album in for an hour or so, as i think it is really the water and surfactant that are doing the heavy lifting.
     
    pacvr and Ripblade like this.
  9. Ripblade

    Ripblade Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Six
    Me neither. But, having bought the kool-aid the first time, this time I'm going to try it strictly as a rinse aid, hoping to catch the small leftover stuff between what the scrub brush missed. The new tank (generic Chinese) is supposed to arrive tomorrow. We'll see....
     
  10. 5-String

    5-String μηδὲν ἄγαν

    Location:
    Sunshine State
    Add me also to those not impressed by ultrasonic cleaning however I am interested in this new ultrasonic system especially since the price is so affordable.
    I hope this project gets funded.
     
    Heckto35 likes this.
  11. Joe Spivey

    Joe Spivey Your friendly neighborhood Spivey-Man Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Filthy albums which I don’t buy or own would get washed by hand. I wouldn’t expect any automatic machine to clean it thoroughly.
     
  12. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    A two gallon case of Titebond II is $35. Alone works better than anything.
     
    Xander2017 likes this.
  13. arem

    arem Forum Resident

    It was a little metal wallet/card holder thingy. They got just under $20k in funding in 30 days and claimed to run into problems when they tried to ramp up production. The last time the creator updated he said that he was trying to raise more funding to complete the project. That was in 2015, since then he has never signed into Kickstarter and none of the backers ever received any product or refunds. Charge it to the game as they say...
     
  14. Joe Spivey

    Joe Spivey Your friendly neighborhood Spivey-Man Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    If we're to believe the creators of some of these failed campaigns, grossly underestimating cost seems to be a common thing.
     
  15. Joe Spivey

    Joe Spivey Your friendly neighborhood Spivey-Man Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Still haven't tried that method yet. You do a vacuum or ultrasonic clean afterwards?
     
  16. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus

    Location:
    Appleton
    Is that similar to the Spin Clean?
     
  17. DaleClark

    DaleClark Forum Resident

    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    I want a degritter. I have the Project VC-S2 and its excellent. However, the all in one degritter probably cleans a lot better.
     
    neubian likes this.
  18. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    Having watched and listened to the video, they may be using a pump to drain the tank to the reservoir (but not refill). If they use a positive displacement pump that has suction/discharge valves - the pump can act as a valve - when OFF the water will not flow though the pump and when ON will flow; and positive displacement pump are self-priming and can run-dry. In comparison - centrifugal pumps will generally allow water to flow though when OFF, may not be self-priming and do not like to run-dry.

    Given that they appear to have a fully functioning prototype - this removes a lot of uncertainty wrt to their ability to design the unit and they have manufacturing capacity so the risk of them not manufacturing if they meet their Kickstarted goal is pretty low. Getting the item into the US without or with minimal customs fees may be the biggest hurdle (I did not notice if they specified that detail; if they did disregard). If it gets legs, then you can bet Amazon will likely pickup. If you do some research and can verify they supply toys to domestic US/UK/EU companies - if shall we say your stiffed - you always have some social media recourse to suggest the companies that buy from them boycott them.

    Is this going to be as good as the Degritter likely not. Its all about the frequency and the power. There is a book Particle Adhesion and Removal 2015, that is 573 pages on nothing more than particle removal, and it has a large section on nothing but ultrasonic cleaning. The quick take-away and to keep it simple is that the lower the frequency the larger the bubble that is created. So, a 40kHz unit will produce bubbles in the size of 50-150 microns. These are not going to get into the groove. The Degritter 120kHz will produce bubbles about 20 microns and these can get into the groove. But, the larger bubble produces more energy when it collapses (cavitation) so there is fluid agitation around the collapsing event that can provide cleaning. How violent the bubble collapse is determined by the amount of power provided by the transducers. So, a low power 40kHz unit may be safe for soft metal while a 40kHz high power unit may not. The smaller bubble by their size are limited to how violent they can collapse - so a high powered 120kHz unit has less potential for damage than a high power 40 kHz. So, fundamentally, if you follow the logic - the lower frequency units (40 kHz) are good for larger soil surfaces and particles while the higher frequency units (80-132kHz) are better at removing smaller particles. Where chemistry comes in is about the fluid surface tension. As the fluid surface tension drops less power or time is required to get the cleaning - so the cleaning efficiency increases - but chemistry can bring a host of other problems if you are not careful; such as fire and explosion hazards if you use alcohol. But, using just Demineralized or Distilled Water is perfectly acceptable and if you are not rinsing is the safest thing to do.

    Am I going to buy it - no. My manual cleaning process is working fine for me, and I would rather buy more records. But, I can easily see the convivence of this device and that can be very appealing.

    Just some thoughts
     
  19. AudioAddict

    AudioAddict Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    To all owners of the degritter.
    Is this machine flexible enough to be used for all cleaning needs of the average audiophile? Am looking for a single machine that would be as easy as possible to use and avoid the kind of manual exercise that twists an arthritic wrist.
    Many seem to have both spinners and US machines. Is it the opinion of the degritter owners that the machine can clean all dirty record types (new, used, and accumulated dirt) sufficiently for critical listening?
    Thanks.
     
  20. Ripblade

    Ripblade Forum Resident

    Location:
    The Six
    Great summary of the cavitation process. One other thing to consider is the location of the transducers. Most of the tanks have them aligned in a single row on the bottom, which can raise issues with wave dispersion, particularly if one is trying to clean more than one record at a time. Ultrasonic waves are like sonic waves in that the reflected waves are never as strong as the incident wave. I discovered this when I used my old tank to clean some parts of my hot air coffee roaster; parts that were 'in the shadows' didn't clean as well or not at all. What I like about this new cleaner.... assuming the final product follows the prototype...is that the transducers are on the sides, directly facing the playing surfaces. This should result in an increase of cleaning efficacy, over and above any tank with bottom mounted transducers, assuming the power is equal. This is where they should be for any US cleaner specifically designed for record cleaning.
     
    Joe Spivey likes this.
  21. Joe Spivey

    Joe Spivey Your friendly neighborhood Spivey-Man Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    From the FAQ:

    Will there be an import tax imposed on the cleaner?
    Yes, the backers will be responsible for the import tax implemented by their own countries.

    I'm interested in knowing how powerful the transducers are but haven't found it yet... or perhaps I've missed it.
     
  22. Leonthepro

    Leonthepro Skeptically Optimistic

    Location:
    Sweden
    Rip. Gonna be another 50$ for me probably.
     
  23. Mike from NYC

    Mike from NYC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Surprise, AZ
    Yes, the US heats up the water all by itself. After doing experiments i concluded that no additional heat was necessary and if you use too much heated water it will warp the records which usually takes place anytime the bath is over 110*.

    If you wash several LPs one after another you'll be surprised at how warm the water can get.
     
    Andrea_Bellucci likes this.
  24. pacvr

    pacvr Forum Resident

    Location:
    Maryland
    AudioAddict, there is separate post that owners of the degritter have been using - Degritter Users | Steve Hoffman Music Forums, and you would be better asking your question there.
     
  25. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Usually, I've first done a sink washing with unscented dish soap, and a filtered water rinse, and shake and spin dry.

    The wood glue forms a skin that comes off in one piece cleanly, if adequate thickness is applied up to the edges and it is allowed to dry. Some put a piece of paper in the glue to help start peeling, but I just put pressure around the edge with a guitar pick until a bubble starts to form where you can start to peel.

    The right glue is quite resistant to peeling, is flexible and not crumbly, and will pull anything not vinyl out of the groove, needing no further cleaning. Give it time to de-static, because it even pulls electrons off the atoms.
     
    Joe Spivey likes this.

Share This Page

molar-endocrine