Joy Division Canada-unique CD mastering of "Closer"

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by RrobynneUK, Aug 25, 2020.

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  1. RrobynneUK

    RrobynneUK Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Norwich, UK
    Just received a (repress) copy of the 1987 master of 'Closer' that is exclusive to the Canadian CD release, and the difference is night and day, even in comparison to the Japanese "25CY" CD. The strong panning on the percussion and quieter bass takes some getting used, to but the clarity of Curtis's vocals is worth it. If you get the opportunity, compare the high end of the percussion during the instrumental parts of 'Passover' for a quick idea of how big the difference is.

    Only problem is, now the Japanese "25CY" version of Unknown Pleasures sounds positively muddy and squashed to my ears by comparison! Does anyone know if that album received a similar treatment on CD in Canada, and if so, what catalogue code etc. to look out for?

    Alternatively, what do you think is the best-sounding 'Unknown Pleasures' CD? Is the US Qwest still the most popular around here?
     
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  2. Pop_Zeus

    Pop_Zeus Forum Resident

    Location:
    Southport, UK
    Whole topic on it here:

    Joy Division on CD

    I’ve read that some think the Factory no barcode / textured sleeve CDs sound the best, but also some are convinced they are the same masterings as the 90s Centredate CDs. The US Qwests I’ve seen varying reports on, and most seem to think the Japanese ones are the best. Then the H&S box set mastering is different again, as are the 2007 remasters. Somewhat of a minefield I think for a band that only put out 2 actual albums!

    I have the original Closer and keep looking out for Unknown Pleasures original but it is rarer.
     
  3. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    I like those "830" 1987 Canadian discs the best. The most crankible to me, and smooth and balanced.

    Unknown Pleasures: 830 812-2
    Closer: 830 685-2
    Still: 830 684-2
     
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  4. nosliw

    nosliw It's a hairstyle, not real cat ears :P

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON, Canada
    I'll have to seek them down as I saw some of them kicking around my area at various shops.
     
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  5. JeffMo

    JeffMo Format Agnostic

    Location:
    New England
    @c-eling is a big fan of Canadian masterings and can probably answer your question.

    I heard he even changed his name from Cory to Emile... :shh:
     
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  6. c-eling

    c-eling Fruit Juice Everywhere

    :laugh:
    I am quite a fan of his cuts!
    I haven't made my mind up on the Canadian Closer disc yet. However it does give a different presentation, quite noticeable.
    I don't visit Unknown Pleasures very often so I'm good with the old US stock Qwest for casual listening.
    I will say in my opinion for my tastes, the West German for Canada Brotherhood and the Canadian Blue Monday 95 (for Blue Monday original) carry my favorite mastering's digital wise. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
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  7. VeeDub

    VeeDub Senior Member

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    I may have to check out the Canadian master.

    I have both a Japanese 25CY-3102 and British/Nimbus XXV (25) and am hard pressed to tell the difference. Any particular reason one is recommended over the other?
     
  8. c-eling

    c-eling Fruit Juice Everywhere

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  9. irong

    irong Forum Resident

    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Several years ago I did some comparision between the canadian mastering of Unkown Pleasures and the Factory-Centredate and you can read the results here and there.

    The Closer canadian CD, which apparently is a 1987 mastering that has been reissued on a regular basis, was still in print in the late 90s and early 00s, while the Unkown Pleasures CD is a late 80's release that was not in print for long (back then you had to buy Unknown Pleasures and Substance as imports...) , and therefore, is scarce. But if you like the Closer CD, the Unkown Pleasures is very similar in tone and presentation, and I'd bet it's been mastered by the same person, around the same time.

    It also is a very good looking release, with a textured cover.
     
  10. RrobynneUK

    RrobynneUK Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Norwich, UK
    It's been a long time since I read through the old CD comparison thread. Am I right in thinking the "2 28219" Canadian CD from 1999 uses the same mastering as the 1987 "830" disc? If so it seems this matter is complicated by one studio album retaining the same Canadian catalogue number on reprints, and the other album not doing so.

    I take it this comment refers to the "830" U.P.?
     
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  11. irong

    irong Forum Resident

    Location:
    Quebec, Canada
    Yes, the Closer CD 2 28219 issued in 1999 is the same mastering as the 830 685-2 from 1987. So both options are good.

    There is only one catalogue # for Unknown Pleasures : 830 812-2. It wasn't reissued domestically in 1999 like Closer, I have no idea why...
     
  12. RrobynneUK

    RrobynneUK Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Norwich, UK
    Thanks for the information! Will be going on my internet-trawling list then.
     
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  13. kevin5brown

    kevin5brown Analog or bust.

    I was curious about this for a while. There is the 1999 Closer 2 28219, which is the 830 mastering.

    There is the worldwide 2000 2-28223 CD for Unknown Pleasures. But ... no specific Canadian version ...
     
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  14. jcarr73729

    jcarr73729 Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    No mention of the 2013 HD Tracks 24/192 download. I know it's not on CD, however I have found it the most satisfying digital version, although I only ever had the 1988 UK FACD25 and 'Heart And Soul' boxed set to compare, and the other thread appears to suggest those CD releases are good versions. Are there any other views on how the hi-res version compares with the best CD versions?
     
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  15. RrobynneUK

    RrobynneUK Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Norwich, UK
    Just got a copy of the 830 812-2 Unknown Pleasures, and it's exactly as I hoped it would be. Smooth and balanced presentation, can really crank it up with much less washiness and abrasiveness in the high end compared to the Qwest. A lot more balanced overall but also great power and dynamics, and similar clarity to the Qwest (it blows both the Japanese 'CY'-numbered UP CD and the original UK LP & CD out of the water). The catalogue numbers for all four equivalents are given in the insert along with New Order product info on the reverse (the front cover insert has a muslin-esque texture, is a light creamy-white, and is blank on one side with the tracklisting and production credits in black on the other, no mention of who prepared the master):

    Unknown Pleasures:
    CD: 830 812-2
    MC: 830 812-4

    Closer:
    CD: 830 685-2
    (no MC listed)

    Still:
    CD: 830 684-2
    MC: 830 684-4

    Substance:
    CD: 834 586-2
    MC: 834 586-4

    Wish more CDs produced today sounded this good. I might dip into the Still and Substance releases if they come up but I'm satisfied with the Japanese "CY"-numbered releases of those for now.
     
  16. c-eling

    c-eling Fruit Juice Everywhere

    Canada loved Joy Division as well.
     
  17. BradB

    BradB Birth.Music.Death?

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Hello, just started reading this thread and I'm now interested in these Canadian CD pressings of JD. Silly question but are these versions you fellow collectors have easily obtainable, and if so where are you finding them? Not trying to sound lazy, but I can sense the odds of getting an incorrect version of a CD being high for a band with such a small catalogue. Thanks in advance!
     
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  18. c-eling

    c-eling Fruit Juice Everywhere

    No.
    I've been trying to source a Canadian Unknown Pleasure for over a year.
    I lucked out with Closer a few years ago. This may be easier.
    If you've no patience finding those Canadians stick with the old US Qwest's they're fine. We're being nitpicky :laugh:
     
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  19. BradB

    BradB Birth.Music.Death?

    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Thanks, I have the old original US CD's along with the 2 CD remaster sets, which I think sound really good, but definitely interested in a different-sounding version of these. Having the spine #'s will help when I get a chance to start looking in earnest. I appreciate the info in this thread!
     
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  20. RrobynneUK

    RrobynneUK Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Norwich, UK
    Interesting- Just realised, the "834" Substance listed in the insert came out in 1988, so either this insert was issued prior to the Substance released without it being TBR being mentioned on the insert, or the insert was added later in 1988 to existing stock, or my copy of the "830" Unknown Pleasures is a later reprint we didn't know existed??
     
  21. c-eling

    c-eling Fruit Juice Everywhere

    Not sure what you mean?
    But yes I do believe two separate manufactures for these titles were done. One Disque Americ, the other Cinram. Could be a couple years between them. Submission years of manufacture/release may not be correct as they are done by the general public. - might just be a guess.
    My Disque Americ Closer hasn't been submitted yet.
     
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  22. RrobynneUK

    RrobynneUK Well-Known Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Norwich, UK
    I see there's a London Records-Polygram-Cinram (as opposed to Factory-Polygram-Cinram) Canadian Still CD entered on Discogs with no known year, also with the catalogue number "830 684-2"- Could be a reprint of the same master? I'm happy to take the plunge and provide spectrograms or EAC numbers, if somebody has the Still CD from that Factory-Polygram-Cinram "830" lot to compare.

    The Canadian 'Unknown Pleasures' will probably be tough to find (go with the US Qwest CD for now, the next best and, to be fair, only a point out of 10 difference I'd say) but the 'Closer' and 'Substance' ones are easier to come across pretty cheap and the 'Closer' one is the bigger upgrade anyway IMO. For 'Still' the answer will depend on the answer to my above question!
     

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