Technics 1200GR vs alternatives

Mid range carts have really jumped in the last few years. I seem to remember both my MP500 and Black being just over $500(ea). The Blackbird used to be $950 and is now $1300 or so. The DV 10x5 has gone from &450 to &750 for the MkII. It’s crazy, and why I think A-T is being very smart in their pricing of their new VM series which I hear are excellent at every level.

 

Good advice. Another alternative I’ve suggested before is the KAB OM/Concorde. See this post.

 

Which is what I recommend if you want an Ortofon. And I prefer the OM platform to the 2M platform.

 

Hi there, I just ordered a SL1210GR. Looking for advice on carts between $500-$750 for it. I will be upgrading from a Rega RP-1 Performance Pack with an Ortofon 2M Blue, so I feel I'm wanting a change from the Ortofon sound. I think I'm distilling it down to the following cart options:

The Vessel R3SM
Nagaoka MP-500
Perhaps a Hana?

This table is going into my recording studio with a Radial J33 phono pre, which I don't think does MC carts, hence at the moment I'm only looking at MM options.

Would love some advice!

 

AT VM750SH

 

Congratulations! You bought a marvelous turntable. I'm pretty sure you'll be very happy with it. And welcome to the forum.

I run my GR with a Nagaoka MP-500. I'm pleased to see it is on your list. It's an extraordinary cartridge. I bought mine two months ago and I really think I found the perfect cartidge for my system (which includes my ears and tastes). No sibilance, no IGD, astonishing bass and mid-bass, smooth, relaxing, with great dynamics, transients and what I believe to be a flat presentation. A lot of people like some extra brightness and the perception of detail it provides but you won't find it with the MP-500. It will play your brighter records as they are, with top octave extension, but won't add any treble. It is a great match for the GR with the stock headshell, with resonance around 9hz.

However, the output of 3mV is great for phono stages with higher gain. Your Radial seems to add only 38dB (?). In this case you might feel the need for more gain. I don't know if you plan a phono upgrade in the future but the relatively low output of the MP-500 might not work at its finest with 38dB in the phono stage.

 

Great info, thanks. And yes I know that Radial is relatively low output. Can you recommend a good phono stage for me for this rig? It would need to be under $500.

 

I hear that's quite a good one as well, with strong value.

 

But is the Special Line Contact or the Microline "better"?

 

I don’t know...do they publish the specs for that “Special Line Contact” anywhere? A side radius of 5 microns or smaller is ideal to avoid inner groove distortion.

 

If your Pro-ject has a 16v AC motor then it might be worth checking out the Pro-ject Speed Box S, which not only allows electronic speed change, but improves speed stability as well, which should mean better sonics.

 

1.5 x 0.28 mil. for the VM760SLC

I've also tried to figure how to convert it to micrometers to compare it to the r/R 5/70 µm on my om40 stylus.

 

I believe that is 7uM x 40uM. So the FG 70 on the OM40 is better, as is a Shibata, Microline, Micro Ridge, etc.

EDIT: And by "better" I mean technically better, as in it will fit the groove better. In my opinion, that also contributes to better sound overall, but it's obviously not the only factor in how a cartridge sounds.

 

I'm the same way with the stylus preference. Not too happy to see the stylus is somewhat of a downgrade, but at least I can replace it with a VM740ML stylus if I'm not satisfied enough.

 

So let me say that me and math are like dogs and cats, they just dont go good together lol. So what math did you use to figure that out?

 

Ha, Ha! Google is your friend. Check out this page.

 

Unfortunately it doesn't. It DC with speedbox stability built in. I checked with Turntable Lab who checked with Pro-ject and confirmed there is no option for the Carbon Classic. It's a shame. If anyone knows otherwise or has something working with there's please let me know.

 

My opinion is when you get to 2M Black price point for a MM you should be investing in a MC cartridge.

 

Reminds me of advice given by my oldest friend from Uni - tastes should mature from beer ->fine wine..... from spicy foods/burgers etc ->fancy tiny portion cuisine..... from jeans & tees->hipster styling..... & from rock/prog/electronic etc-> jazz/classical. His did, mine didn't.

Some reasons why I remain a MM/MI philistine, including a few carts well above the 2M Black price point:

• Align a cart as perfectly as possible, never need to do it again.
• No need to remove & send away for a re tip.
• Keep a lightly used spare of each main stylus to use as a reference & compare for wear. When the original shows audible signs, use the spare & buy another etc.
• Temporary & fast swap from expensive to lower cost stylus (background listening etc - extend the life of premium variant).
• No need for a SUT or different phono stage to handle MC.
• ....many MM/MI carts are extremely musical & pleasant sounding (accepting that they don't have the 'snob' appeal of MC which is fair enough).

I have heard some fabulous MC cartridges & have no issue with people preferring them but I remain entirely satisfied with what I have.

 

That is a great tip!

 

I have a theory that based on the stylus dimensions of the ML vs SLC styli, the ML has better depth of the groove, but the SLC has better overall contact with the groove, making inner groove performance as good as ML performance.

 

Hey there- also wanted to know specifically how you felt about your MP-500 as far as its presentation to rock/electronic music. And, also if I may, what phono pre are you using? And what might you recommend?

 

I love the cartridge for rock, but I don't have electronic music records. I use a Parasound JC3+. I believe you should have at least 40dB of gain in the phono stage for this cartridge (3mV output).

 

Makes sense. So maybe even the JC3 Jr. would work for me, spec-wise?

 

Surely. Everybody loves the Jr. Check this out: Tavish Adagio, Parasound JC3+, JC3 Jr or something else in the $1.5K - $3K