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The NEW technics SL1200?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by wrat, Apr 4, 2018.

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  1. wrat

    wrat Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    S.Fla
    at $1600 its quite a bit more than the original. anyone heard?
    I am seriously considering picking one up
    selling my nottingham analogue
     
  2. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Big thread on it here, check it out, just about all you need in there. Go buy it is the synopsis.
     
    OldSoul and displayname like this.
  3. Bathory

    Bathory 30 yr Single Malt, not just for breakfast anymore

    Location:
    usa
    3x the price of an older unit when new. wow,
    makes me WANT to keep mine for another 30 years.
    i think i paid about 5-600 for my sl1210MKII (black back in the early mid 90's. 1600, wow that is a lot........
     
  4. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I just took a brief listen to one of the new model units yesterday. And frankly I was underwhelmed after the insane level of buzz which I have been reading about these units on this forum. The platter was nicely damped compared to the original. The pitch was extremely precise, but the sound struck me as being somewhat dry and it was not pulling me into the music. I don't know how much of this impression can be blamed on the Ortophon Blue cartridge which was mounted to the TT as compared to the turntable itself. I suspect that with a better cartridge that I would lave probably liked the sound much better though. Regardless the sound that I heard last night did not wow me the way that many good analog front-ends have in the past.
     
    JoeSmo likes this.
  5. Cosmo-D

    Cosmo-D Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Was that new? You also have to take 20 years of inflation into account. The rate of inflation from 1995 until now is 63.4 percent. Your $600 turntable would cost $900. They also had to entirely retool the factory and they made some upgrades. A price point of $1600 isn't outrageous. Also consider what from competitors at that price. The Rega Planar 6 is the same price, and it is a cheap belt-drive (belt drives are cheaper to build and engineer) compared to a sophisticated direct drive. The Planar 6 has what looks to be a lightweight, single piece plinth. The 1200 has a dampened aluminium chassis, and dampened platter (the Planar 6 is just acrylic).

    Compared to what you can buy new on the current market the 1200GR would appear to offer much better value for money.
     
    keiron99, nosliw, Dan C and 2 others like this.
  6. Cosmo-D

    Cosmo-D Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Canada
    I think that would be a smart move. Nottingham turntables don't even make any sense. Aren't the motors so low in torque you have to start the platter by hand? I don't understand the design philosophy of using low-torque motors. I don't see the benefit at all.
     
  7. Gibsonian

    Gibsonian Forum Resident

    Location:
    Iowa, USA
    Compared to the competition and what you get for $1600, the new Technics is a really nice bargain.
     
  8. displayname

    displayname Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2018
    punkmusick likes this.
  9. RDriftwood

    RDriftwood Vintage Member

    Location:
    Midwestern US
  10. displayname

    displayname Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas
    From everything I've read the PLX-1000 is a good alternative to trying to find a mint SL-1200 MKII-MK5, and the SL-1200GR is a good upgrade from the old SL-1200 series and PLX. The 1200G sits in a new class. The looks maybe similar, but the engineering has significantly advanced.
    It appears that each step up is a noticeable improvement (in an appropriate system) and is well priced for it's performance level.

    Again all of this and more has already been discussed (including PLX comparisons) here: Petition launched to reintroduce Technics turntables (Update: The SL-1200 is Back!)*
     
    HiFi Guy, nosliw and punkmusick like this.
  11. 62caddy

    62caddy Forum Resident

    Location:
    PA
    Whatever you heard, it had nothing to do with the turntable- which is essentially nothing more than a transport mechanism. The cartridge is what generates the audio signals. The turntable's job is otherwise to remain out of the equation, imparting as little effect (mechanical noise, feedback etc) on the audio output as possible while providing stable accurate rotation of the platter and precision tracking.
     
    Manimal and displayname like this.
  12. displayname

    displayname Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dallas
    If you're listening to a new table on an entirely new and unfamiliar system, you have so many variables in place it's not really fair to compare. Maybe the TT was underwhelming. Or like you said, maybe the cart was... or the speakers, or the phonostage, or the amp, or the recording/pressing. I think the best ways to audition are in a system you are familiar with OR by doing A/B testing in the same system.
     
    nosliw, 62caddy and Shawn like this.
  13. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    the blue is the culprit in your less than ideal experience- no question. pop an audio technica ART9 on that baby and let the fun begin.
     
    HiFi Guy and displayname like this.
  14. rhing

    rhing Forum Resident

    I auditioned the Technics SL-1200GR at Alma Music in San Diego, and I was very impressed with how quiet and solid the soundstage was. It was set up with an Ortofon 2M Blue cartridge and connected to a Technics SU-C700 integrated amplifier driving a pair of Technics SB-C700 monitors. I was so impressed, I almost bought the turntable that day. I decided to hold off on it though and I’m glad I did.

    A week later, I bought a Denon DJ VL12 Prime DD turntable since I had a $100 off coupon for the Guitar Center who had a unit in stock at the local store. I figured with the discount and the Guitar Center’s 30-day return policy, I couldn't lose trying it out since this was the only way I would be able to audition the Denon DJ. I had read favorable forum posts by owners, and Zu Audio sells these turntables as well with the intention of releasing modifications in the future.

    If I hadn’t purchased the Denon DJ VL12 Prime turntable, I probably would have ended up with the Technics SL-1200GR; it really is a great turntable and built with Japanese quality craftsmanship. In the end though, I really like the Denon DJ at half the price of the Technics, which allows me to invest more in my vinyl collection. I don’t feel like I am missing anything with the Denon DJ compared to the Technics other than aesthetic appeal. If I feel the large block lettering is obnoxious, there are always quality skins available for the Denon DJ.

    That all said, if you are gravitating toward the Technics SL-1200GR, it really is a bargain considering the amount of engineering and workmanship that Matsushita Electronics has put into these fine turntables. I may still end up buying one, because one day may come when production ceases again, and I can only think these turntables will appreciate further in value.
     
    HiFi Guy, punkmusick and displayname like this.
  15. Bob_in_OKC

    Bob_in_OKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Texas
    A low torque motor and a heavy platter is actually a very reasonable concept.

    Flywheel - Wikipedia
     
    missan, Spica, Helom and 1 other person like this.
  16. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    I definitely plan on giving one of these units another listen. Hopefully I will be able to hear one with a much better cartridge. But I have very high expectation. So we'll see if I have a better experience next time around...
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  17. rhing

    rhing Forum Resident

    This is a very interesting article about the relaunch and branding of the Technics SL-1200GAE/G/GR:

    A Turntable Reborn Turns Its Back on Its Hip-Hop Legacy

    Also, since the new Technics decks allow for personal choices in cables, I recommend the Zu Audio Mission Phono interconnects, which are available from Zu Audio at reasonable prices through their eBay auctions (zu_promos). I installed this on my Denon DJ VL12 Prime, and I am very pleased with the improvements in clarity, tonality, soundstage and imaging.
     
    HiFi Guy likes this.
  18. Cosmo-D

    Cosmo-D Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Canada
    I feel like it is much easier just to use a higher torque motor. I feel like stylus drag on heavily modulated passages is a possible problem with a low torque motor, but I'd need someone to do the math for me. Calculating moments of inertia is actually its own course in first-year engineering and no where near qualified to be able to make a definitive judgement.
     
  19. AppleCorp3

    AppleCorp3 Forum Resident

    Food for thought. I liked the Blue on mine (and now Bronze). Will add that cart to the list.
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  20. Old Audiophool

    Old Audiophool Forum Resident

    Location:
    Melbourne, Fl.
    displayname likes this.
  21. punkmusick

    punkmusick Formerly 4011021

    Location:
    Brazil
    People seem to like it, I have read favorable reviews here in SHF.
     
  22. Bob_in_OKC

    Bob_in_OKC Forum Resident

    Location:
    Texas
    The motor is a magnet driven by AC power at a speed proportionate to the frequency of that power and the number of poles in the motor. The frequency is continually changing and being corrected to maintain 60 Hz in our part of the world, 50 Hz in others. As the speed changes from say 59.97 to 60.03 to whatever, the lightweight AC motor can in theory react to those ever-changing frequencies by changing speed. The power maintains a grip on the magnet in the motor, which transfers this ever-changing speed into the belt, but it lacks the torque necessary to quickly change the speed of the massive platter. The motor can’t work slowly, so its sudden start causes the belt to slip and chirp if the platter is very heavy. That’s why the user pushes it.
     
  23. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Senior Member

    Location:
    US
    They're bringing back the 1200? Really? I've never heard that before!

    ;)
     
  24. Cosmo-D

    Cosmo-D Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Canada
    My point is that a low torque motor could potentially lack the power to "push" through heavily modulated passages. The torque could be insufficient to counteract the increased force of the stylus drag thus slowing the platter down. I've often wondered if this actually occurs. People cite idler driven tables as having superior bass "slam". I don't see why drive type would greatly affect the tonality. The only thing I can think of that would account for any difference in sound would be the advantage in terms of torque transfer that an idler driven turntable would have. However, given a sufficiently powerful motor a I can't really see why a belt-drive would sound any different from an idler drive or direct drive—this is of course not taking the presence of rumble into account (which will vary from drive type and specific implementation).
     
  25. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    That is one philosophy which says that only W&F, Rumble and isolation distinguish the sound of turntables. This philosphy also states that only the cartridge can make any difference in the sound because these have measurable differences in frequency response and distortion. But it is a philosophy to which I do not subscribe.

    While I certainly do agree that different cartridges can sound radically different, and that all of these factors can and do contribute to one turntable sounding slightly better than another, I absolutely do NOT agree that also these are the ONLY factors which influence a turntable's sonic signature. I am of the strong opinion that other factors such as internal resonances, and energy losses inside of the plinth or subchassis, as well as the bearings can also contribute to the sonic signatures of both turntables and tonearms.

    I was never a fan of the original 1200 sonically when one was put up against a really good belt drive TT. Although I always admired its robust build quality, great engineering, it's excellent measured performance, and it's dead-on pitch. So what I am interested in learning is whether this new and improved breed of 1200 can finally beat a belt drive at its own game (musicality, air, and resolution), as well as having all of the advantages of a DD turntable. If it can subjectively beat (or at least equal) an excellent belt drive TT (to my ear) then I may well switch allegiance, and start running a DD turntable again in my system for the first time in the last 35 years.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2018
    HiFi Guy, displayname and Spica like this.
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