Wow and flutter, etc. Tape Speed Issues - Tone Poet / Blue Note 80th anniversary vinyl LP problems.

Why 500 per stamper? It's usually 1,000.

And which reports of sales?

 

Because the guy who's name is on all of these records says so - check the quote by Joe Harley in that same post above. These are audiophile releases.

 

That’s a common denominator.

But it’s not the important one.

Thousands of 2019 reissues are “on vinyl.” Ones with speed problems are out of Cohearent. Press them at RTI, press them at Optimal....doesn’t matter. Same problem whenever a piano dares to have its ivories tinkled.

 

well I sure hope you know how to use a rat tail file.

 

OK. Fair enough. RTI is only pressing 500 per stamper, that's interesting. Regarding sales, which reports are we looking at? I am genuinely curious.

 

Ok. Which portion of audio do you believe is suffering from tape or mastering issues?

To be clear, I am not saying there aren't issues with tape in some circumstances. But it is important to take into account all possible variables in a situation like this, especially if someone is potentially blaming a person or company for instances that could be caused by the medium or playback device.

 

The sensation of a frequency is commonly referred to as the pitch of a sound. A high pitch sound corresponds to a high-frequency sound wave and a low pitch sound corresponds to a low frequency sound wave.

 

That's the definition of pitch. That is not what is meant by "frequency" in the definition of "wow". The pitch of wow is determined by the pitch(es) that are being produced on the record. Wow is not, by definition, a low frequency pitch.

I don't mean to be rude, but I don't think you quite understand what wow is.

 

Yes, but still doesn't resemble flutter.

 

Probably not I'm not an expert, obviously, but "high" pitch means very rapid oscillation, and "low" pitch corresponds to slower oscillation and that's exactly what I'm hearing

 

HAHA



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I hear it with any pressing with sustained chords on fixed pitch instruments that is not perfectly dead center, regardless of source being digital or analog.

 

I repeat, I never mentioned high frequency sensitivity in my posts but you still do; only pitch sensitivity; we are in agreement here.

 

I am sorry, but there is nothing in the definition of wow that you posted here that states that high or low pitch is associated with wow or flutter; but rather the frequency of the variance.

 

Will do.

 

No, that's not correct. Flutter is akin to a warble, which is fast moving. It sounds like the instrument has been shaken.

Wow is relatively slow. It occurs with each revolution of either the tape player, recorder, or platter rotation.

 

Thanks Steve!

As the thread starter I’d like to clarify my title (which has already been modified by gorts at my request). I only guessed at the time that tape issues were the core reason for these irregularities in what some of us hear mostly in the piano on TP and BN80 lps. These same irregularities are now presenting themselves on other LPs cut from other studios tapes (Riverside, etc. maintained by Concord not BN) at Cohearant.
Wow, flutter, warbles, etc are all terms that seemed relevant when discussing the aural effects that bother some of us here including myself.
I just want it to go away if possible because I love all these records in all their analog glory. Maybe that’s possible, maybe not.

 

Last day to vote before the 2020 titles appear:

Blue Note's Tone Poet Series: Poll

POLL: Blue Note's 80th Anniversary Series

 

What part isn't correct? because I agree entirely with your post. Turntables tend to suffer mainly slow wow which to my ears sounds like lower pitch and flutter is a rapid succession a.k.a warble.

 

Sorry. The first part of your post is correct. It's the part that says wow is low pitched that is not correct. It's slower than a flutter, but wow can occur at any pitch. Warble can as well.

 

I see your point. Here is where I am getting tripped up. I am listening to Andrew Hill's "McNeil Island" on Tidal, the 2004 release on CD, and the TP pressing. I hear the tape warble on all three mediums. It's particularly noticeable at 1:15 (right at that loud Eb half-diminished chord, which really sounds like Monk to me). The warble seems worse on the TP pressing because mine is certainly not dead center, which makes the pitch move around even more. This makes it difficult for me to say for certain that issue stems from the TP master. Also, the warble will be more obvious on versions that have more high frequency information, which the KG masters tend to have more point in the high treble, where the warble is gonna be more dramatic as the upper harmonics in the piano collide and get all swirly.

 

There was some graphic evidence deleted in the main TP thread that showed the pitch fluctuations unique to the TP mastering. It is really the only solid evidence we have thus far. However I trust the ears of many on this forum saying they hear it on the TP where it is not on other versions.

One thing I have noticed, is since this whole discussion started I am noticing wow and flutter on a variety of albums not KG or Cohearent mastered. I’m listening to my ‘80s OJC of Chet and there are some obvious pitch instabilities on this album. I noticed it for the first time about half way through side two and a few instances after that. It may have been there earlier too, I wasn’t listening very critically.

 

Totally agree. I hear it more in the TP, but my pressing is not dead flat or dead center, which is a huge variable. Does anyone have a Black Fire that is dead center?