Curious how many have made any wow and flutter measurements on your tables, and what methods you are using? I recently downloaded the free WFGUI utility that a lot of people are using, and tried it out with the 3150Hz test track on the Analogue Productions Ultimate Analog Test LP. The utility can use either 3000 or 3150Hz test signals. I recorded about 15 seconds of the signal while playing the record on my Micro Seiki BL-91, and then played it back and used that as the input source for the WFGUI. Below is a screen capture, in this sample showing 0.0219% RMS wow and flutter, DIN weighted. The original specs list 0.025% WRMS, so not bad for a 40 year old belt drive table It does move around some, from about .019 to .044 (as you can see in the middle where it shows maximum value of .044 was recorded), so not sure if they normally average the readings over a certain time period, I'll have to read up some on it. Anyway, interesting test, I'll have to test out my Clearaudio and see what it reads, along with my Micro Seiki direct drive too. Could be a helpful tool for occasionally checking if your table needs a tuneup. Can also be used to accurately set your turntable speed, if you have that capability. Mine is showing about 0.1% high according to the meter snapshot, but it will vary up and down slightly during the measurement unless there is no wow and flutter, and you can view the log file to see by how much. A.N.T. Audio :: Welcome :: Library
Yea, I know, that can be the biggest hurdle, figure that out and get it working smoothly, and it opens the door for lots of cool stuff. A couple years ago I bought a little Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi HD box to do things like this, think it was on sale for $70. They label it "audiophile", but of course it's not, and it's kind of quirky to use as well, but once I figured out how to use it, it was no big deal. And it works as a USB DAC too, not the best, but I've heard worse. It only accepts 48/96K rates, so that's the first big quirk to get around. There's a bunch of different ones available, but this one has RCA connectors for the inputs and outputs, so that works better for me than most of the ones that are geared more toward amateur live music recording. Anyway, below is how I generally use it. It does have a built-in MM phono stage, but I don't use that. I have a spare MS Phonomena II+ so use that for the phono recording duties, it's quiet and flexible. The setup is shown below, normally the computer is on the table in front of the couch, but shown here alongside the other gear...
I use AnalogMagik and Fieckert Adjust+ AM: A+ (the laptop on the left, not the app on the table, which is off a bit):
Yea the MIC (W10Pro) input does not read any signal from my phono stage, only as a MIC so room noises only. I guess an interface of some kind is needed, something like a Behringer U-Control. Has RCA inputs plugs into laptop via USB port......only like $30
It would be a lot easier if these programs could load a WAV file recorded from the turntable through needledrop methods, and make measurements from the file. I never use any kind of turntable > ?? > ?? > USB connection. I record things to a Tascam and SD or MicroSD card.
They can, that's what I did. You can see in the first picture, upper left corner, source is the stereo mixer, not the USB Sound Blaster. I played the file in foobar after recording and used that as the source. But you can also go direct from turntable in real time, either way, just have to set the path in your computer..
Where? This WFGUI does not as far as I can tell. In a workaround kind of way I have just played a file through the computer speakers and WFGUI picked up the playback through the computer's mic. Along with ambient noises.
It uses whatever you have set as the recording source. If I want to use a file instead of the USB input from the Creative, I set it like below ...
It will be interesting to see if a 1000cps tone is recorded, as I did, the wf is trebbled if the recording is made into a 3000cps tone. Just noticed you're using the analog prod lp, is it worth getting one? are they well centred?
I was able to get the sound into my laptop..... The AP Test LP has a 3150Hz tone for speed adjustment. With this WFGUI says I am a tad slow like 3145Hz, when I use Dr Fieckerts old Platter Speed app I run 3149-3150Hz, this app uses the mic to hear the tone from the speakers. I use a MH Cruise Control, so I set at 33.3 from 33.2, and the WFGUI runs a bit high at 3150-3153Hz.........I think I'll leave it at 33.2 since that is what works best from my speakers.
WFGUI should just have a button to Open or Load a file. That would not be difficult. It's only on its version 8, I guess he hasn't gotten a round tuit.... Quick testing a tt just like I said - recording into the Tascam/SD card, playing that through the computer speakers and letting WFGUI measure from the mic of the same computer, I got this This is only a thrift shop DD turntable I got right before the lockdowns, just for the cart and stylus it had. A few weeks ago I finally set it up and have been trying it for a couple weeks and marveling at it vs. what I paid. I think I did ok.
The trouble with these tests is that you are at the mercy of how well the test LP is cut and pressed. I know that Technics uses a record + w/f meter to test their turntables but I am not sure what record they use. Probably not something that is available through conventional audiophile dealer channels. Most of the currently available test LPs being sold through those channels right now have their issues.
Apparently some copies are well made and some aren't. I privately corresponded with one member here that was using that AP UAT LP to test a cartridge and it gave bad results. They had to get another test LP to obtain accurate results. With any test LP it must be inspected carefully and even then it might not be perfect. I think attempting to run a speed or w/f test at home makes more sense if you are trying to calibrate a belt-drive turntable, especially if it has a separate motor pod. With a direct drive that comes calibrated from the factory I don't think there is any need. You are more likely to drive yourself crazy with bunk test results.
Sometimes the wow and flutter measurements are made from the motor control circuit, so they don't involve a test record in the conventional sense. Seems kinda like cheating, but maybe not, hard to get perfect test records. Sound Hi Fi (works with HiFi World) says they have a few copies of the DIN 45 545 test record for their tests, claiming it's the only one that is any good.
off topic but a friend keeps telling me I should listen to the new califone record, just saw it in your profile.
Yea, it is really good, kind of a soundtrack of sorts for a dance troupe, but not anchored to that performance at all. Have you heard any of their records before? They have a few really good ones. Best New Albums of 2020
I have the quicksand album whatever it's called, the same friend who keeps mentioning their new one gave it me lol Just got a new dac Starting point dac3: any views? and might try it out on there, got the soft machine's new live thing on at the moment
Yeah, Pioneer (Hanpin) does that. Technics uses the record + meter method. Even HFW admits that their test rig is only accurate down to 0.06% wow. I do not know if that is due to the record or electronic measurement software/gear. In any case, not accurate enough to measure a number of number of turntables. Certainly better than Dirty 'Ol Uncle Mike's phone app method though. I know that MAR does some w/f tests, but I'm not sure what record or gear they use.
I was speaking more about vintage decks, I wouldn't have much faith in any Chinese turntable specifications, but while on the subject, curious how you are so certain that Technics uses a record for testing wow and flutter? All they list in the specs is the general 1975 Japanese test guidelines JIS C5521.
Right. Re: the record it was shown in a video on the 1200G I believe. I would assume this method is used for all of their turntables and probably the previous generation 1200s as well. I don't have a link but a member posted it somewhere on the forum before.
You would think that a record manufacture could cut precision records just for test purposes. Charge a premium but guarantee the specs on it and give a certification with a print out. I mean what the heck, there are no royalty fees on test tones and such. Maybe they are all to busy stamping records for the masses. Billwojo
Well, we would hope, but it doesn't always work out that way IME. Most plants are definitely busy stamping records for the masses and trying to move stuff out the door as quickly as possible, which is why QC on new vinyl often slips. Oh, and these new test LPs aren't exactly cheap either - usually $40-50 each. Many of them are basically toys for audiophiles rather than professional testing tools...
