Yes - Tales from Topographic Oceans on CD/Digital Poll: Blind Listening Test

I'm going to be running this poll and A Farewell to Kings concurrently. Go here for the Kings thread: Rush - A Farewell to Kings on CD: Blind Listening Test

Each sample contains 4 different masterings of a track played in consecutive order (ie - A, B, C, etc.). ReplayGain has been applied through Audacity so that each version of the song is at the same relative volume.

Rules and notes:

• ***In order to avoid biased votes, please do not guess or speculate which mastering a sample uses.*** This is especially important here since pointing out which sample is the hi-res version will likely sway the results in its favor!

• If you intend to vote, it may be better to read other people's posts after you have listened to the samples and voted, in order to escape confirmation bias.
• It's recommended that you listen to the samples and discuss what you heard. Discussion of compression (without referring to DR values), EQ, and different tape speeds is fair game.
• Comments based on visual inspection of waveforms, spectral plots, and DR values might condition the poll results while the poll is open. I strongly urge you to avoid talking about these things until the poll has closed.
• You can't view the results before you vote.
• Votes are publicly displayed.
• If you want to change your choice, you can do so as much as you please until the poll's expiration.
• This is entirely optional, but I'd appreciate if you could point out if you're listening on speakers or through headphones. If you don't, then that's totally fine. It does help a bit though.

SAMPLES

• The Revealing Science of God (Dance of the Dawn)
• The Remembering (High the Memory)
• The Ancient (Giants Under the Sun)
• Ritual (Nous Sommes du Soleil)

Spoiler: Previous blind listening tests

The Cars - The Cars
The Cars - Heartbeat City
Miles Davis - In a Silent Way
Peter Gabriel - Peter Gabriel 1 (Car)
Genesis - Trespass
Genesis - Nursery Cryme
Genesis - Foxtrot
Genesis - Selling England by the Pound
Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway
Genesis - A Trick of the Tail
Genesis - Wind & Wuthering
Genesis - ...And Then There Were Three...
Genesis - Duke
Genesis - Abacab
King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King
The Police - Reggatta de Blanc
The Police - Zenyatta Mondatta
Rush - 2112
Rush - Permanent Waves
Rush - Moving Pictures
Rush - Signals
Rush - Grace Under Pressure
Yes - The Yes Album
Yes - Fragile
Yes - Close to the Edge
Yes - 90125

The poll will be open until May 27th. As always, have fun!

 

Listening on JBL 305P Mk II powered near-field monitors with JBL LSR310S powered sub. DAC is a FocusRite Scarlett 4i4 (3rd gen).

The only digital versions of this album I've heard are the '94 Gastwirt remaster, the '03 Rhino remaster, and the Steven Wilson remix (which presumably is not included here). I think I know which samples are the Gastwirt and the Rhino.

I wouldn't say any of these sound awful; I could live with any of them if I had to. But none of them are really outstanding either. No loudness wars victims here, fortunately, though B may have some mild peak limiting.

• A: A bit too warm, but not grossly so. I think I prefer this one simply because it's less annoying than the others.
• B: Much too warm. Also seems like it may be from a higher-generation tape; it has more background noise than the others, though most of the time you don't notice it (the warmth may result from a treble cut intended to cut the hiss). The classical guitar in "The Ancient" sounds boxy.
• C: Consistently too bright, especially around 3 kHz where it's really annoying.
• D: Upper-treble boost (6-12 kHz), probably to add "air", but it also adds sibilance. This might have been my favorite with the treble boost reduced by half. Sounds like it may be from the best tape.

Ranking: A > D >> B > C.

 

Listening through Tannoy DC10 speakers

I voted for D. I found it easier to make out Jon Anderson's vocals on this version compared to the others. It could be argued this is because there's been an upper treble boost applied (as StingRay5 has pointed out) & other versions are more tonally neutral but I like being able to hear lyrics easily. Now if Tales had been an instrumental album ....................

 

I hope that these samples are enough to provide a good look at the masterings. I would've added 8 samples (2 from each song), but due to file size concerns, I just left it at the usual 4.

 

A - Good dynamics and smooth EQ. It could use a tiny increase in the upper frequencies, but this version's the most engaging for me.
B - Slightly more muffled than A, but still manageable. It sounds a bit brighter to me on Ritual though. Nothing to write home about overall.
C - The increased upper mids on this one really annoyed me. Keyboards on Remembering sound piercing and shrill. There's nice imaging, but that's it. Least favorite by far.
D - Still brighter than necessary, but it gels better than C. It'd be fine if it were the only version available, but A says hi.
For my tastes, the ideal version would be something between A's warmth and C's detail. Still need to hear Steven Wilson's remix someday.

A > B > D >>>> C

 

I still find this album largely a chore to get through, but the SW remix is easily the best I've ever heard it sound.

 

These are all the rage on YT and some are pretty entertaining.

 

I forgot to mention that I used Meze 99 Classics via foobar2000.

 

I've sometimes posted after only hearing these on my laptop, but in this case I'm especially curious to listen through my speakers. My initial instinct over the laptop is that none of them sound very good: A and B are almost comically rolled off and muddy (with B adding some extra harshness in the mids), and C and D go too far in the opposite direction. Over the laptop, D was initially my pick as the most transparent after just hearing "Revealing Science," but over the next three samples it became too piercing, so I was left with C as the least offensive of the remaining samples (though it too seemed artificially boosted in the upper mids).

This is an album where I suspect my original UK vinyl pressing will be very hard to match, let alone surpass, as--like Going For the One--it never seemed to get a great digital transfer.

 

D I guess but B is close behind. A is nicely unfutzed with and crankable but is a little too rolled off and uninvolving for my taste and C is dead last with a piercing treble boost that is instantly off putting and fatiguing to listen to. None of these sound as good as the music deserves - glad we have the remix! Listening through headphones. Thanks once again Diablo!

 

I’ll have a go at this (first time for this game!) Listening on headphones. D best for me overall. C last in all cases - too much treble and thin sounding - except for The Ancient sample where it bests A & B. Generally preferred A to B but both are a bit dull. D>A>B>C overall but none really that listenable. SW remix is my go-to for this album.

 

I'm listening just on laptop speakers - but couldn't resist, since I've missed the last few polls. Maybe I won't vote yet, but "A" jumped out at me - really liked the strength and even crispness of lows and low mids going on. But after a few spins, "D" started to tempt me. A little more life in the upper register, giving everything a bit more presence and urgency. "C" seemed pretty weak to me. "B" was somewhere in the middle of it all. I'm tied between "A" and "D" for now. I could see maybe on certain systems, or on certain days/moods, I might prefer one and then another time, prefer the other.

 

Too bad this wasn’t. I’m not sure, he’s familiar with Yes, but never heard TFTO before?

 

All samples are fine, I didn't notice any problems with any of them. The main difference appears to be the choice of eq, and from dark to bright, the order is B > A >> D > C. That's also how I rate them for sound quality, although the sweet spot would probably be the average of A and B.

The odd one is really the Ritual sample, where it almost seems as if A and B and also C and D were switched. For this one track, my preference would be A > B >> C > D.

 

Funny how when one mastering is darker than the others most people assume it's rolled off when usually it is the other masterings are treble boosted.

 

This is one I was very interested in!

Revealing Science of God:

Hard one, I admit. D is discarded, with its exaggerated highs. It's a bit harsh.
C is more revealing, compared to A and B, with its high mids brought up. But I fear it can get a bit tiring in te long run (and we are talking about a double album with 20 minute songs).
Between A and B, I prefer B, as A sounds a bit boomier.
B is crankable, sounds vintage. It's a bit veiled, but it's lucky, 'cause I happen to enjoy darker masterings.

Vote B.


Remembering:

Very clever sample, Diablo. That part with the synths makes me exclude C and D. It's piercing.
I prefer B, for the tamed bass and for the imaging (I like how the bass sits better and everything seems to fit better; does this mean it's a better transfer?). I do like the sound of the lower toms when Anderson is singing "Lies with you", just before the synths part, on sample A.

Difficult, but I'll vote B.


Ancient:

C seem to lack a bit of breath on the guitar and vocals, at the start of the sample. It also has less hiss. It has more high mids and highs than sample B, making it a bit more revealing, but B sounds more natural on the vocals.
D is too sibilant.
Sample A seems to have more highs and lows than sample B, but that makes B sound a bit more relaxed. Sample B seems to have more hiss than A. It's a small difference between these samples.

Was almost choosing A here, but after repeated listening, A/B-ing A and B, I'll go with B.



Ritual:

The synths on D are too forward making them too piercing. It's a odern sounding sample, but this is music was not mixed to sound like this. It just breaks the frequency balance.
C is weird. It has more highs and high mids than A and B, but it seems it's missing some information really up there. And I don't like to feel that. Possible noticeable noise reduction?
So it's B vs A again. Everything on A seems more tense than on B. B is more relaxed (I really don't know how to say this in other way). But if listen to A for same time, then B sounds a bit weird. Comparing with other music I have here, I can't really take any conclusions, regarding this.
On the "na na na" part, I prefer B. Seems more open. But on the part before that... I don't if I prefer A or B ahah On A, the high hats seem more uniform. They sound less solid on sample B.

Well, I'll vote B here as well.


Concluding:
I think both A and B are good. I can't really tell which one is a better transfer. In some places, B seems like it. In other places, A seems like it. But B seems to have more hiss overall (maybe a higher gen tape transfer).
I'll vote B, but I'll have to do this again; I'm not convinced.

Used ATH-M40x headphones for this.

A shout-out to Diablo for putting up two great blind listening polls!

 

Hi Diablo
This one is very difficult for me for two reasons :
- A and B sound very similars to my ears. I preferred A because it sounded a bit more balanced, B has maybe a bit too much bass
- C is too bright, but D, while being bright too, is not unpleasant : it has power and details. However I think it might be a bit fatiguing in the long run
So I chose A, even if I like D a lot too, and certainly could accept B. C is the only one I find weak.
Test made on headphones (ATH-M20X)

 

Not gonna be too surprised if this one results in at least a 2-way tie.

 

Not too surprised if this happens. I’ve got 3 of these 4 at home and it took me a long time to finally decide which I preferred.

 

Hey Diablo,
Thanks for another fun poll. I'm not as analytical as some - but I have a slight preference for D.

Listened on Sennheiser headphones and a ifi DAC.

 

So, I tried again. This time I focused more on comparing the samples with other music I have here. Bright sounding musics, dark sounding music.
Sample C is not as offensive as I first thought, I have to say. Both A and B are a bit boxy. I do tend to like darker masterings, however. Sample D I still find it too bright sounding.
The synths on C were not as harsh as I first thought. And it's very revelatory, just a tad too much eheh
Ideally, I'd like something between B (or A) and C.

Used my headphones plugged into my Scarlet 18i20 (88200Hz sample rate) and also used my Yamaha HS8 speakers (they are more neutral on the highs than the headphones and C sounded a bit smoother, which I enjoyed; but note it's not just because of the speakers that I arrived to the conclusions on this review).

 

Argh... I can see this one will cause some angst.

Without going into too much, the first sample has a veil over it, and isn't very dynamic (which is not to mean it's heavily compressed, only that it sounds dull). B is somewhat the same. Then you get the last two, C and D, and again they're a distinct pair. The latter samples have had the veil removed, but others I suspect (and as instructed, I'm not going to read the comments of others until I've posted this) may complain the treble has been boosted. The great battle there is going to be sibilance. I think the last two sometimes walk a fine line.

I struggle between C and D, they're so close. I can definitely discount A. B is a bit meh. C and D, well, either is going to offend someone, I'm guessing. Still, we're here for the fun element too, so forcing myself to choose.... I'm going D as my "best" choice. Now I'm going to read all your comments!

 

I choose: A

 

OK, I finally had some time to hook up my laptop to my preamp so I could compare these over my speakers. With the sound coming from my laptop's headphone jack straight to the preamp through a cheap interconnect, I'm sure there is some degradation in sound compared to playing the actual CDs, but it's the best I can do for now.

Sample A sounded much better this way than it did through my laptop speakers, though it still sounded rolled off in the treble. This was especially apparent with Jon's vocals, which just never sounded particularly present. There was nothing actively annoying about this mastering, but it did feel like there was a veil between me and the music.

Sample B sounded even worse this way than through the laptop on its own. It somehow managed to sound even more muffled and muddy than A, yet added a harshness on top of it. This was my least favorite of the four samples.

Sample C was more-or-less the same as when listening straight through the laptop. It was very transparent, though perhaps a bit too saturated in the upper mids. I wish it were a bit more relaxed, but I felt like Jon's voice in particular sounded the most like an actual voice on this one.

Sample D sounded even more tipped up in the treble this way than from the laptop alone. It was just overly crispy and completely unnatural.

Overall, I found D and B to be unacceptable, in the sense that it would actively annoy me to have to listen to them over the duration of an album. I could live with either A or C, though ideally would prefer something in between (which I think we get with the early UK vinyl mastering). I voted for C, but with strong reservations. I have my suspicions about which masterings these are, and if I'm right about C, it's from a group of masterings that I normally find to be not to my taste (though I don't own this particular one). So I didn't vote for C as sounding great, but as being the least offensive of a group of mediocre to poor masterings. A again is not bad (and I suspect I own it, along with D), but the slight veil over Jon's voice leads me to prefer C for these samples in spite of C's overall "technicolor" brightness (though perhaps I would change my mind if listening to the entire CD).

 

Not a bad turnout so far. I'm sure Relayer will be similar.