I stand by my own opinion without the need to back it up from others, I still think it isn't the same band whatever anyone else say, now please lets drop this, jeeze...
Just my two cents: debating about semantics in this context won't lead anywhere. What is a "band" identified by: It's name? Then it's the same band. Two core members? Than it's the same band. ALL his members in a given period of time? Then it's definitely not the same band. If we can't agree upon this little detail, the debate will be endless and pointless. - Now. To be very anal about semantics, a band is, by definition, made of a bunch of people. Take only one of them out, it's not the "same" band anymore, it's a band with the same name and a certain degree of continuity.
Aaaand... One Man's Fool I really don’t know about this one. It’s the hardest one to get into to me. Not sure if it’s a thumbs up or down. It seems we’re back into Banks solo territory, with all typicals idiosyncrasies and overlength (8,40 minutes of this are a little too much). There’s an interesting element here that stands apart: the change in rhythm in the second part, upon the same bit of music (something they don’t do that often). Lyrics seem quintessential Tony to me, they echo things like Island In The Darkness and also old things he did in Genesis. They’re OK. Not sure it’s a great closer. So far it’s more on the anonymous side to me. Meandering a bit, and a tad too repetitive in the second half. Some more typical guitar from Mike, whose contribution for the rest I can’t really point out. - Final overall thoughts on the album later (for those interested )
I think the remix is clinical and cold. It totally loses the vibe, it's a hybrid product with a fake sound to it. And it's compressed. It's good as an alternative listen, to get more nuances of the original songs ad parts, but overall the murky original mics is more atmospheric to me. I'm referring to the stereo mix.
One Man's Fool To be honest I am not sure how often I have made it to this track. Certainly on my first 5.1 listen I would have, but even on these relistens to this album, I can't guarantee that I did. I like the start to this song, and I like the moody feel, and I think they developed the melody fairly well on this. I also think like several other tracks there was a little bit of development on the drums, that to me at least is an extremely important factor on a Genesis song. I actually quite like this song The instrumental break is effective, it not entirely gripping. The melodic change after it is nice. I like the way the feel changes coming out of the instrumental break ... This track does sound somewhat more like a Genesis to me, and although I wouldn't be so bold as to say that it is a favourite, it is good and I find it interesting, which I think to some degree is my problem with a lot of the tracks on here, I don't find them interesting. I almost see this album and We Can't Dance as more Brother and Sister albums than We can't Dance and Invisible Touch. I maintain that with some more focus on arrangements and sound choices, and some editing of length of some tracks, this could have been a truly great album, but for some reason they seem like they rushed or didn't care enough to polish a few of the rough edges ... that I hear at least. I think this is actually a good track.
For me ... and I am probably still not quite intimate enough with the songs, I would have done something like this. 1. Calling All Stations (write a solid ending or a smooth blend into the next song) 5:43 2. Sign Your Life Away 4:45 3. Alien Afternoon (fix The Fade) 7:51 4. Not About Us 4:38 5. Uncertain Weather (fix the fade) 5:29 6. Dividing Line 7:45 7. Shipwrecked (I kind of like this song, but just tighten it up a bit, and fix that fade) 4:23 8. Congo (revisit the lyrics, and make them less squirmy, or drop the song, If it is going to be a fade, make it smooth) 4:51 9. One Man's Fool 8:58 I'm not sure really, but something along those lines would have been a better way to present these songs. It makes this a 52-53 minute album, something like that... Like I say, tighten up some of the arrangements. Make the drums on some of these a little more interesting. Write some endings to songs, or fix the fades, and I think you have a fairly strong album. The original is just too long and samey sounding to me, which makes it a bit of a yawn to me, and makes me lose interest in trying to get into the album. Also it wouldn't have hurt if someone had the cahooni's to tell Tony to try some things with his keyboard sounds, and also maybe try sounding interested rather than some sort of permanent whimsical that sits too closely to bored. As I have said, I actually don't hate this album, it is just that a lot of the decisions leave me scratching my head, and the length and sequencing doesn't accentuate the best tracks ... I have probably failed to do a much better job there, but it isn't as over long, and I at least like the tunes... they are the ones that seem to stand out to me.
One Man’s Fool was the first track that really clicked for me on this album. It requires investment to get to the payoffs (the descending chords that kick in at about 4:50 and when the pace picks up and arrive at “one man’s saint is another man’s fool” verses). The drumming is Collins-esque, which I like, but I also wonder what Phil would have done with it. Overall thoughts on this album: It had been a while since I gave it a listen. It is flawed, but I still like it and am glad they tried to carry on. I do wonder what a follow-up could have been with Ray more involved from the outset. Missed opportunity. The way Mike and Tony let it fizzle out is disappointing, but I can understand why. I’m glad Tony eventually made the effort to meet Ray face-t0-face to put it to bed. CAS has the worst album cover of any in the catalogue. Did someone bang that out in Photoshop in three minutes? The Congo video was (a very expensive) mis-read on the song and the market at the time. At least the single cut out that silly “Congo” keyboard noodling at the beginning of the album track. My favourites: One Man’s Fool Dividing Line There Must Be Some Other Way Not About Us Congo Uncertain Weather OK tunes: Calling All Stations Shipwrecked If That’s What You Need Should have been cut: Alien Afternoon Small Talk
I had fun transcribing these, hopefully Tony's notes have been insightful. Now for the last one: Tony Banks On: One Man's Fool Well the first half is really dealing with terrorism I suppose, the idea of someone who's…obviously when you watch a programme on TV, when you see the news and you see all of this misery and destruction and everything and you know that obviously someone looks at that and thinks 'that's a job well done, I'm really pleased with that.' And it's difficult to know…it's difficult to get inside that person's brain to feel what it is that is important enough for them to make them feel that this is worth doing, causing all this misery. So the first half deals with more of that. The second half deals with that but extends the idea a bit further really, dealing with certainty, people who are certain about things; how can you be so sure? I have always had a mistrust of certainty and the second half really deals with that, but it deals with it really in a more philosophical manner so it's less personal, it's less intense.
It did for me as well. Here's an updated statement from 2018 where Tony mentions 9/11: "If anybody hears it now, they would assume that that lyric was referring to the bombing of the Twin Towers, but it wasn’t. It was written four years before, and yet it sounds like we were recalling that. I was actually writing about a bomb attack in Manchester, in England, which was done by the IRA at the time, and the idea that people carry out these attacks and did they really believe that, all the destruction, that it really is worth it? But, it still works, unfortunately, because we have this kind of terrorism still out there."
One Man's Fool Honestly one of the less successful tracks here for me. The first few minutes are neither melodically not rhythmically engrossing, and really without something to draw me in musically the words cant really reach me. Instrumental segment is nice enough, but brief and not really enough pay off for making it through first 4 min. I like the more uptempo section that occupies the last minute of the song, but again not enough pay off for the first 8 min. Of course the standard caveat - I still like it better than most tracks on its two predecessors.
Alright, we've finally hit the end of the studio road. I assume up next is When in Rome, and everything associated with the reunion?
Not quite. They remade The Carpet Crawlers. And has the live (and somewhat live) material on the Archive sets been discussed?
1979 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Duke 1980 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 1 Behind The Lines Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 2 Duchess Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 3 Guide Vocal Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 4 Man Of Our Times Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 5 Misunderstanding Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 6 Heathaze Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 7 Turn It On Again Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 8 Alone Tonight Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 9 Cul-de-sac Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 10 Please Don't Ask Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 11/12 Dukes Travels/Dukes End Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side Open Door Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side Evidence of Autumn Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Lyceum 1980 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Face Value 1981 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Abacab 1981 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 1 Abacab Genesis - The Album by Album Thread live Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 2 No Reply at All Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 3 Me And Sarah jane Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 4 Keep It Dark Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 5 Dodo/Lurker Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 6 Who Dunnit? Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 7 Man On The Corner Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 8 Like It Or Not Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 9 Another Record Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side Naminanu Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side Submarine Genesis - The Album by Album Thread 3x3 1981 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Paperlate Genesis - The Album by Album Thread You Might Recall Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Me And Virgil Genesis - The Album by Album Thread 3 Sides Live 1982 - Album - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Film - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 1 Turn It on Again Genesis - The Album by Album Thread film Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 2 Dodo/Lurker Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 4 Abacab Genesis - The Album by Album Thread side two Genesis - The Album by Album Thread side three Genesis - The Album by Album Thread side four Genesis - The Album by Album Thread The 82 solo albums - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Genesis 1983 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 1 Mama Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 2 That's All Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 3/4 Home By The Sea 1 & 2 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 5 Illegal Alien Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 6 Taking It All Too Hard Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 7 Just A Job To Do Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 8 Silver Rainbow Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 9 It's Gonna Get Better Genesis - The Album by Album Thread 12" Genesis - The Album by Album Thread making of Genesis Genesis - The Album by Album Thread The Mama Tour 83/84 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread 84/85 - more solo albums - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Invisible Touch 1986 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 1 Invisible Touch Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 2 Tonight Tonight Tonight Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 3 Land Of Confusion Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 4 In Too Deep Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 5 Anything She Does Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 6 Domino Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 7 Throwing It All Away Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 8 The Brazilian Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Feeding The Fire Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Do The Neurotic Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Genesis - The Album by Album Thread I'd Rather Be You Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Live At Wembley stadium 1987 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread pt 1 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread pt 2 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread pt 3 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread pt 4 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread 87-91 the solo albums - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread No Admittance (doco) Genesis - The Album by Album Thread We Can't Dance 1991 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 1 No Son Of Mine Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 2 Jesus He Knows Me Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 3 Driving The Last Spike Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 4 I Can't Dance Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 5 Never A Time Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 6 Dreaming While You Sleep Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 7 Tell Me Why Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 8 Living Forever Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 9 Hold On My Heart Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 10 Since I Lost you Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 11 Fading Lights Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side Heart's On Fire Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side On The Shoreline Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side Way Of The World Genesis - The Album by Album Thread The Way We Walk Live - Shorts - Longs - DVD - 1992 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread dvd part 1 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread part 2 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread part 3 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread part 4 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Calling All Stations 1997 - Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 1 Calling All Stations Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 2 Congo Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 3 Shipwrecked Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 4 Alien Afternoon Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 5 Not About Us Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 6 If That's What you Need Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 7 The Dividing Line Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 8 Uncertain Weather Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 9 Small Talk Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 10 There Must Be Some Other Way Genesis - The Album by Album Thread track 11 One Man's Fool Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side Papa He Said Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side Banjoman Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side Phret Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side 7/8 Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side Anything Now Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side Sign Your Life Away Genesis - The Album by Album Thread b-side Run Out Of Time Genesis - The Album by Album Thread 3x acoustic songs Genesis - The Album by Album Thread 3x acoustic song Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Unreleased Nowhere Else To Turn Genesis - The Album by Album Thread Genesis - The Album by Album Thread
What we will be doing next is having a quick overview of the solo albums between We Can't Dance and Calling All Stations, as I was asked what happened with them ... Then we will do a quick overview again of the solo albums between C.A.S and the Carpet Crawlers reissue, which will include an overview of the hits album. Then a run through archive 1 and 2 The Silent Sun 2006 reissue Then We will probably finish up with the 2007 tour If there is anything in particular that I am missing, please let me know.
I suggest touching on Hackett's Genesis Revisited CD and DVD releases, as more closely tied in to Genesis canon than anybody else's solo work.
I will be touching on everything left in the discography ... and looking at the Hackett Genesis Revisited stuff is probably a good idea ... but we are nearing the end of the road
