Although, if this track was really recorded October 1965, surely they couldn’t have heard ‘If I Needed Someone’ in time to be influenced by it? Something else related: if this is really a Kontroversy outtake, does that mean there’s a chance that Cattini is on drums on this one? Interesting that every album between Face To Face and VGPS contains one track that’s an outtake from the sessions from the preceding album.
Thanks for posting this. The biggest difference I hear is the lack of Nicky's harmonium overdub in this mix.
‘I’ll Remember’ is the kind of track inclusion that gives a kernel of truth to the misconception that Face To Face wasn’t a hugely competitive album for 1966. I mean it’s not quite ‘Tomorrow Never Knows’ in terms of ambition is it? That said, I agree with everyone who’s said that it’s a great track in its own right, and a decent bittersweet pop/poignant encore type exit track for the LP. I mean maybe it’s not the absolutely ideal closing track that the rest of the album concept deserved as it was originally conceived, but it is the closing track that this timelines Face To Face has had for 55 years, so I love it and it fits for that reason at least. I always loved Pete Quaife’s response when the title of this song was brought up in an interview where he was being prompted, John Lennon in Playboy style, for his immediate response to the mention of a song: Interviewer: ‘I’ll Remember’? PQ: ‘I Don’t’.
Now that we're at the end of the album, could you or someone else explain to me what concept the Face To Face album has or was supposed to have. Thanks.
I like "I'll Remember". It is very reminiscent of "If I Needed Someone". As A J Smith points out, it must have been written before they heard it, so it's unfortunate. Otherwise another excellent Kontroversy-flavoured song and a good album closer.
I don't know that Face To Face is by any definition a concept album. Maybe people thought that because he focused so much on Great Britain and English culture in general. I didn't think they really went for an actual concept album until Village Green.
Re: “I’ll Remember” sounding like the Beatles. Here, transcribed from Jonathan Cott’s November 1970 Rolling Stone interview with Ray: ******** Jonathan Cott: A number of your earlier songs sound not like places, but like other songs: “I’ll Remember,” for example, like a Beatles song. Ray Davies: “I’ll Remember?” No, no. ********. It’s a song written on the 6th. Buddy Holly! I wrote it on a harmonica in Seattle, which is in Washington. I’ll Remember. ******* So FWIW, there we have Ray, at least, disavowing a Beatles similarity.
It was intended to be a song suite linked by sound effects. No story or even a VGPS style over arching theme (although as observed by many on this thread several songs included do have similar subject matter in common) but intended to be heard together as one piece linked by the effects. Pye thought this was too outre apparently and ordered the effects to be scaled back; it’s also likely they futzed with the intended running order. Hence the compromised final product only had sound effects on tracks 1,6 and 8 (if you count the harpsichord intro as an effect you can also add track 5 to that) and no strong flow to the sequencing.
I can't really hear any great difference between the stereo and mono mixes of "Sunny Afternoon" - either way round it's the same great song that's difficult to mess up. "I'll Remember" is a wonderful, charming slice of powerpop that would have sounded equally at home being played by a new wave band in the late 70s. Yes, you can hear that it has a production quality closer to the last album than this one, but as has already been mentioned, that doesn't detract from the song at all. Perhaps another take might have ironed out the bum note on the bass going into the bridge, and made more of the guitar solo, but it's still a great track as it is. I love the plaintive melody, the accents on "tears that fell" and the harmony on the last line of the verse. Would have been a great closer on Kontroversy (but that already has a decent closer), and is equally effective closing Face To Face.
Hi folks, I'm back on page 123 of this eye opening comprehensive wonderful thread. I want to thank Mark and everyone for the depth of insight, knowledge, commentary etc... on The Kinks. I've loved them since 1964 when at the age of ten they first came into my life never to leave. I cannot measure the amount of expansion of my knowledge of the band this thread has afforded me. Karry On!!!
So just for everyone's foreknowledge, next week we will run like this. Monday - Dead end Street (plus early acetate version)/ Big Black Smoke (single) Tuesday - She's Got Everything, Little Miss Queen Of Darkness alternative take, Little Miss Queen Of Darkness (alt stereo mix) Wednesday - You're Looking Fine (alt stereo mix), Fancy (alt stereo mix, and extended fade out), Dandy (alt stereo mix) Thursday - Mr Pleasant/ This Is Where I Belong (single) Friday - The Mr Pleasant EP Saturday - Waterloo Sunset/ Act Nice And Gentle (single) then for the following week Monday - Death Of A Clown/Love Me Till The Sun Shines Tuesday - Something Else By The Kinks I just wanted to give you guys a heads up here, because this section of releases right here is quite awkward. There is a lot going on, and there are some really interesting releases, and the sequencing seems quite unusual, and I just found out some things I never realised. Anyway, we will get through this, but it was quite awkward trying to sequence what we will be doing, because release-wise, there are some real curveballs in this section. If anyone has any major contentions about this sequencing, please let me know, but this is how the releases came out, to the best of my researching abilities Cheers Mark
I'll Remember has always felt weird here to me, but I do also enjoy it. In fact, as far as I'm concerned I have no issue with it outside of it sounding exactly like a Kontroversy tracks sonically (for obvious reasons), and that it then seems to have had some weird processing, almost like they made it fake stereo then folded it down. However, beyond this, the song has a lovely melody atop it, and everyone puts in a good performance. While End of The Season* might make a little more sense, this track really does have a finality to it, and works very well as a closer. *It's very easy to insert End of The Season into any version of the album too - the mono mix sonically matches, and the stereo mix is done like much of the album - FX left, Vocal reverb left, and backing track reverb right (or something to that measure).
Interestingly both songs were recorded in October ‘65. If I Needed Someone was released in December ‘65. Maybe both had a similar inspiration from Buddy Holly! also, it is just incredible to think about how fast things were changing back then. Imagine today saying something like “yeah, but that sounds more like the 2015 pop scene than 2016”
This comment doesn’t naturally follow Mark’s sound organisational proposal but anyway... the Beatles references around I’ll Remember reminded me (sorry) how few obvious Beatles influences come through in Kinks songs. It’s something I’ll be keeping in the back of my mind as this thread continues. I wouldn’t have blamed Ray if he’d have shut out the Beatles when he was trying to be creative. And if he did listen to Revolver and Sgt Pepper he was determined to go in a different direction.
I'm going to do the reference guide either later today, or tomorrow morning.... I'm a little tired as I only got two hours in the horizontal mind rest position last night ... so I'm going to take a nap
I'll Remember Sweet song. Perfect vocal from Ray. Definitely brilliant sequencing as the closer. That guitar is just a little too jangly for my ear, but fortunately all those other positives overcome that one minor complaint.
!!! This adds an extra two weeks to my naive assumption of the discography. Remarkable how many EP’s etc they pumped out. (I’m glad I took a hard turn last week and went full on jazz immersion. Needed to rest up for the main course (coming soon!).
"I'll Remember" has a lovely positive, not-quite bittersweet feel that makes it a great album closer. Leaves you feeling refreshed and optimistic. Even though something good is over, the vibe stays with you.. the sort of song that makes you think, everything will be alright. And it's a terrific little tune. I've always rated "Face to Face" very highly but have dug it this week more than ever. The rate The Kinks were putting out quality music at this point is remarkable.. and they weren't alone in that of course. I think that allows me to be quite forgiving when there's songs, like the present one, that feel like they belong on the previous (or sometimes next) album.. such an explosion of output, the record companies (especially Pye by all accounts) rushing barely recorded new product onto vinyl like there was no tomorrow. The point is that the music got out, one way or another, so I'm not too concerned what 'fits' in one era or another, provided we get to hear it. Oh to have been around when it was all new.. -- Perhaps there is an element of unworldliness about The Kinks, that meant they were never quite going to challenge the titans of the Beatles/Stones/Who. An old fashioned, pre rock n roll take on songwriting to some degree (though McCartney and Townshend would dabble in similar styles), but also a parallel adherence to a very rough "garagey" sound that the big three rapidly outgrew. And they boasted less of an 'aura', a transcendence of the everyday, that the all-conquering ethos of the fabs, the hip nonchalance of the Stones and the grand Art concepts of The Who would afford those groups. But the Kinks songs for me match those of their peers, pound for pound. And it's notable that they were one of very few 60s groups that Punk (while rejecting the most 'significant' works of the era) embraced ..and that was not just down to simple riffs and rough sounding guitars. Johnny Rotten for one spoke about his love for the unusual depths of Ray Davies' songwriting. Perhaps there's something to be said for the everyday, after all. And, it gets even better. Roll on Monday (and you'll not catch me saying that very often..)
This song I can relate to.I have three older sisters. One of which took a three month journey to see the country. I was lonely with longing and hoping for her safe return. I even did some of her house work while she was away. I always connect to Ray's older sister lyrics.
Reference guide A bit about the band Oct 1963 I'm A Hog For You Baby (first recording) Dec 1963 Oobadiaboo unreleased? Feb 1964 Long Tall Sally - live footage Apr 1964 You Still Want Me - b-side You Do Something To Me Aug 1964 You Really Got Me - Shindig tv - live footage - beat room - BBC - SNL - live b-side It's All Right/It's Alright - shindig tv Oct 1964 The Kinks Beautiful Delilah - shindig So Mystifying Just Can't Go To Sleep Long Tall Shorty - live 65 - shindig - live 72 I Took My Baby Home I'm A Lover, Not A Fighter - shindig - Beat Club You Really Got Me - Beat Club Cadillac - live Bald Headed Woman Revenge Too Much Monkey Business -Alt fast take I've Been Driving On Bald Mountain Stop Your Sobbing Got Love If You Want It - Live BBC I Believed You I Don't Need You Anymore Everybody's Gonna Be Happy demo Don't Ever Let Me Go 1964 All Day And All Of The Night - shindig - US tv I Gotta Move - shindig - live 92? 1964 All Day And All Of The Night EP Nov 1964 Kinksize Sessions Louie Louie - live I Gotta Go Now I've Got That Feeling - live Things Are getting Better The Kinks at the BBC 1964 Meets the Kinks You Really Got Me interview excerpt Cadillac All Day And All Of The Night Little Queenie I'm A Lover Not A Fighter Ray on YRGM and USA I've Got That Feeling Paris 1965 Hullabaloo 1965 The Kinks educate the US Dave - Annette and Frankie Jan 1965 Got Love If You Want It EP Jan 1965 Kinksize Hits EP Jan 1965 Tired Of Waiting For You - French tv - Shindig - NME - US echo / Come on Now - live - live 82 5 Mar 1965 Kinda Kinks Look For Me Baby Got My Feet On The Ground Nothin' In This World Can Stop Me Worryin' 'bout That Girl - live? Naggin' Woman I Wonder Where My Baby Is Tonight - Sweden Tired Of Waiting For You Dancing In the Street Don't Ever Change Come On Now - alt vocal So Long You Shouldn't be Sad Something Better Beginning I Go To Sleep Tell Me So I'll Know A Little Bit Of Sunlight There's A new World Just Opening up For Me This I Know 17 March 1965 Kink Size (US lp) 19 Mar 1965 Ev'rybodys' Gonna Be Happy - tv/ Who'll Be the Next In Line - shindig - tv 21 May Set Me Free - tv - US tv - shindig/ I Need You - Dave - Ray Mick Avory interview July 1965 See My Friends - discothec - tv - shindig - live 94/ - alt Never Met A Girl Like You Before Dave interview Sept 1965 Kwyet Kinks Wait Till The Summer Comes Along Such A Shame A Well Respected Man - German tv - Beat Club Don't You Fret - live in 69 Clay Cole meets the Kinks BBC - You Shouldn't Be Sad Tired Of Waiting For You Ev'rybody's Gonna Be Happy This Strange Effect Hide And Seek - live Swedish Newsreel Sept 65 Nov 1965 Kinkdom 19th Nov 1965 Till The End Of The Day - live 65 - live 93 - live 80 Where Have All The Good Times Gone 26th Nov 1965 Kink Kontroversy Milk Cow Blues - shindig - live - Beat Club Ring The Bells Gotta Get The First Plane Home When I See that Girl Of Mine I Am Free - Dave live Till the End Of The Day - Beat Club The World Keeps Going Round I'm On An Island Where Have All The Good Times Gone It's Too Late What's In Store For Me You Can't Win Mr Reporter Time Will Tell And I Will Love You All Night Stand All I want For Christmas Is My Two Front Teeth - Ready steady go She's My Girl/Listen To Me She's My Girl info - song Mar 1966 Dedicated Follower Of Fashion - Alt. - studio sessions - video - live 73 Sitting On My Sofa Ray Interview Live in 65 Live In Germany 65/66 part 1 - part 2 BBC - live at the Playhouse tracks 1965 June 66 Sunny Afternoon - video - TOTP - full video - live 70 I'm Not Like Everybody Else - live 90's - Soprano's Jul 1966 Dedicated Kinks EP Aug 1966 Greatest Hits Sept 1966 Well Respected Kinks Documentary part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Oct 1966 Face To Face Party Line - Dave live 90's Rosie Won't You Please Come Home Dandy - live 67 Too Much On My Mind - live 80's Session Man Rainy Day In June House In The Country Holiday In Waikiki Most Exclusive Residence For Sale Fancy - live 69 Little Miss Queen Of Darkness You're Looking Fine - live Sunny Afternoon - alt stereo I'll Remember
I like the positive responses to I'll Remember. It's one of my favorite Kinks songs & to me it sounds like Buddy Holly would have if he was around in 1965. I also like the demo version of When I See That Girl of Mine, which also had that Buddy Holly quality to it.
"pin a song down like a butterfly" - that's great. Reminds me of something Cioran said: "In art and in everything, the commentator is generally better informed and more lucid than the subject of commentary. This is the advantage the murderer has over his victim".
I love Dave's raw, trashy lead guitar tone and semi-raga solo on this number...a perfect album closer track for 1966.
Are you listening to the "alternative stereo" release? Sure you are not listening to the "stereo" release?
I'll Remember Another one of my favourites off Face To Face. Just played it about 20 minutes ago and the tune is still going through my head. I agree the guitar sounds tinny but it's still a great song.
