I always took it to be a more of a joke than anything actually done to the mix to punish Steve for his departure. Just a tame mix, which was somewhat improved in my view with the Davis remixes
Yeah, Tony and Mike offer a fairly clear explanation of the title. Phil’s response doesn’t seem anything more than an offhanded, vague afterthought.
What has that got to do with this discussion? And please feel free to explain this play on words you believe to be relevant here.
"Second's Out" A superb "live" album (overall). An essential piece / snapshot in the Genesis discography. I'm not gonna go through a song by song bit (it doesn't matter), - however --------------------------> This version of "Supper's Ready" : is 'carved in stone', for me. I love Peter Gabriel, but this version (with Phil on vocals) SHINES. Not least … the way the band "takes time / slows down" the latter portion of "Supper's Ready" (after 'Apocalypse in 9/8') is profound and endearing , (with plenty of Rutherford's BASS PEDAL strains underlying it all). It's why it is my "go -to" version. Everything else is really good to fantastic. An essential "LIVE" album, regardless of genre. PS - Goodbye, StEvE ...
The point being that there is a pattern of Genesis using plays on words—or double entendres—especially in the late 70s and early 80s. “Six of the Best” literally referred to the current Genesis touring lineup Banks, Collins, Rutherford, Thompson, Steurmer plus Gabriel at Milton Keynes. The phrase more broadly refers to the form of corporal punishment commonly practiced in old English schools, such as Charterhouse, the alma mater of Banks, Gabriel and Rutherford. Six of the best was getting whacked or caned by the headmaster six times. Granted, that was vintage shy, mumbling Phil from before he was truly comfortable in his own skin as a front man, but that 1978 interview basically confirms that there are multiple meanings in the choice of title for Seconds Out even if Phil didn’t do a great job of explaining it.
Yeh, agreed. A Great album, a nice snapshot, But Live and 3 do more for me ... I like the studio versions more of what is on Seconds Out, but still an enjoyable live album
I’ve no problem with the original mix either (probably because it was first ‘experience’ Of hearing the live Genesis?). If you really want to hear Steve taken out of the mix then they’ve done a good job on IKWIL on the surround sound mix. No idea why but it is a crying shame and now sounds unbalanced to my ears!
Seconds Out is my second (!) favorite live album by anyone of all time (the first being Little Feat's Waiting For Columbus). I heard it first when a friend of a friend had a worn out copy on vinyl and rushed out to get a new, shiny copy. It is mixed a bit tame, but I can get past that. The playing is fantastic, the band is really tight and side 4 is practically transformative to the listener. The album takes me to another place whenever I listen to it. I first saw Genesis live on the tour to support Duke and listening to SO takes me back to seeing that show (forgive the anachronism). One thing I really like about SO is how it builds up. Side 1 is the band finding their footing on stage, gradually building up confidence with the audience. Side 2 shows them getting bolder and taking a few chances. Side 3 is the first peak with them 'daring' to do the entire Supper's Ready and dedicate an entire side of a record to it. But Side 4 may be the greatest piece of live rock music ever (officially) issued on plastic. It's one of the very rare double albums that I want to replay immediately. (I'll venture to say that a radio show that I dubbed to cassette is a better live show, but it's not an official release.)
I think it was Mark who stated that Squonk isn't much of an opener on this album (paraphrasing), and I agree. That tune sounds great on ATOTT, but I've never understood why it was played live so much.
Squonk I have grown to like this song, but, to me at least, it seems so out of place as an opener for a concert set. So much so that I had to look up the setlist site to see that it is the actual song they opened with ... just so strange to me ... anyway. To me this album is really well recorded and has a great sound. It works really well for those that aren't really big live album fans, because the French audience claps and cheers in all the right places and during the song they are all ears. The performances all through this disc are excellent and I can understand how some folks would have been absolutely bowled over by these guys during this time. When I saw them on the Invisible Touch tour, they were certainly a tight unit that knew how to put on a marvellous show. Still a fond memory. The more I hear this song as an opener the more it seems to make sense, but at first it is just a strange choice to me. For the longest time this album just sat on my shelf, merely because what essentially is the first side of the album worked as a stumbling block for me. As I said at the start of the thread, this is one of the reasons I wanted to do the thread, to make me listen to things I have avoided, or have just sat aside for no other reason than the familiar gets the nod most of the time. I can safely say that this album is back in the rotation, as it is a great sounding album, and the performances are great. This album really does grow to an excellent climax, and in that context Squonk works as an opener.
I think Squonk would have been more effective if it began with a loud bang - the band at full volume and hitting the stage with a big boom. Not a pyrotechnic explosion, but a big crash of sound. I think I'd prefer Dance on a Volcano as the actual opener, in all honesty. But I guess the band didn't want to arrive too soon, if you know what I mean. Here's where the mix of the album is a bit tame, and I think the song could be a bit faster. Is it at a bit slower pace than the studio version? It seems a big sluggish to me. IIRC, the Japanese vinyl I have of this is a very clean sounding record but doesn't fiddle much with the original master from the Atlantic US version. I don't have the US version anymore (and all my albums are packed away in storage at the moment while we renovate the basement) so I can't dig it out to give it a listen.
Let me just say, if you were there, hearing those opening chords to “Squonk”, I think you would understand why they opened with it. The Seconds Out version pales in comparison to the raw blast you heard live. Plus, since the Trick tour they always opened their show with a track from the previous album, and other than DOAV, which was planned for the closing sequence, I can’t think of any other song they would open with from that album.
I think the “Squonk” opening is where the difference between the soundboard tapes and “Seconds Out” can be most keenly felt. Whereas you get slapped about the face by a band firing on all cylinders on the raw tapes, the official album opens with more of a polite “oh, hello...”
I think that was where I was at with it. Like I say, I actually do like it, having a critical listen to it .... It's not like I expect all concerts to begin with a bang, many concerts and concert albums that I have loved can start with something more reflective that builds into something. For the longest time this track seemed to occupy that middle ground whereby it didn't explode onto the scene, nor do it slowly drag you into it, it was just there. It seems getting some of those soundboard tapes that are often referenced would be very helpful in getting another perspective. But again like I say, on listening to the whole album, it makes contextual sense. The crescendo that this album achieves really is quite brilliant .... and Robbery Assault and Battery is probably more of a stumbling block for me ... I am just not a big fan of that song.
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On a side note listening to Hackett's Please Don't Touch album, and it is better than i recalled. How can I does sound like a rewrite of across the universe though
I'm back and it'll gonna take me a while to catch up. I'll briefly agree with Mark about the EP: there's nothing there I'd put on W&W and I consider the pieces to be clear leftovers much unlikely It's Yurself. The guys chose the strongest material and sequence it the best possible way. Only Inside And Out has some points, and mostly for the last instrumental part. I came late to the EP because during my Genesis heydays it was not available to me. When I got to listen to it, I was a different listener myself but couldn't find much connection with Wind to be honest. All pieces have a novelty, set-aside taste to me, the kind of things the band could do to have fun and get a little fresh air. It almost sounded like a side project. Hackett isn't even in all tracks. As for Seconds Out. I've never been a live record kind of guy, so I considered myself done with the studio albums. I bought Live but for some reason I was happy enough with a copy tape of Seconds (that, curiously enough, I listened to much more than the other). I didn't listen to it because of "superior" versions but mainly for variety, for the different flavour it offered. The fades in-between tracks weren't a big deal, I had heard something like that before (and Live is thee same) but a the same time I wondered (and still do) why they didn't bother creating unabridged transitions (maybe simple production concerns: quite difficult to transition in a few seconds from the hot cheering aftermath of Squonk to the contemplating calm required to start Crawlers. Anyway, I think the sequencing is pretty good. I always liked Crawlers and I like to see it in a prominent position. It's maybe mandatory to start off with recent pieces as a statement to what the band is at the time. The only baffling insertion to me is Robbery. Wasn't there anything better to choose from? I suspect the track stands there especially for the virtuosistic middle section, that is a live showcase in itself. Later on I bought it but by then only the Definitive Remaster was available (and no amazon/ebay - to me at least). I fount the attempt to connect the tacks by a little early crossover between the fade-outs and the track starts a little pedestrian and unnecessarily (they are stille separate tracks) and the sound more tamed that I remembered it on my tape. - Quotes! Curious thing: the power trio didn't wait much before getting back to work without Steve. ATTWT was ready before it came officially out. But the live album was still selling well and it was delayed. Maybe that made the passage even more striking at the time, but behind the curtains there was no break in continuity. I don't think he's more mixed out then he was in the 4-piece studio recordings. He could be a little less buried but that's just how they were doing things at the time. Not sure Phil would be great on those though. You can't walk though Epping just by clowning with a tambourine. I think Squonk is a great opener. And I understand the choice. That was their heavier piece at the time and they wanted to open with a bang. The recorded version is tamed compared to bootlegs? Well, maybe they didn't want that bang to bee too much. Plus, its reprise in Los Endos make it the opener and the closer and I'm a sucker for circular structures. I think overall it's his greatest album. Not perfect, but remarkable for its variety alone.
Is it worth going track by track through Seconds Out? It means ten days of tracks that have already been discussed as songs. I know people love this album but I can’t see doing it for say The Way We Walk Vol. I.
Lets have a vote on this guys ... Do we want to go track by track on the live albums? Yes or no I'll take a like for this post as a yes ... and obviously a reply with an answer will be self explanatory ... Doesn't mean we can't still talk about the album Cheers Mark
yeah chalk another one for liking Squonk on SO. Love how quiet it begins with just the sound of drumsticks hitting each other, and the low chattering of the audience in the background, and its a perfect setup what kind of rollercoaster ride it will become later. Also I think the song is a bit slower then the studioversion? I can be wrong, actually think it improves, the hook of the song is this lumbering rythm, by slowing it down it makes it even more apparent. I remember seeing Spock's Beard live a few years ago and they covered this song, wich was even more slowed down, and thought it was really incredible.
